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carpdvl



Member Since: 30 Jul 2018
Location: Sydney
Posts: 4

Australia 2011 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 SW Alpine White
Diagnose this noise! Transfer case or gearbox whir/whine?
Hi all,

So I have done fairly extensive investigations on a noise that began in my driveline about 3 months ago on a trip to the snow (well... it at least became very apparent then). Initially I thought it was front diff but have since narrowed it down based on a bunch of tests. The car is a 2011 Puma 2.4 that has done 96k.

Frustratingly, I dropped it to a well known independent locally to fix the noise and install a new clutch. Ended up spending just shy of 3k having the TC and gearbox pulled apart (note that also includes fitting a new clutch in labour costs). Importantly, same indie did a full TC rebuild (seals, bearings etc) a year prior so the cost did not include cost covered by the warranty on the labour and parts on the TC...

The full work supposedly uncovered the following:
Gearbox was fine (incl. all bearings), needed new detent springs and obviously seals
Transfer case intermediate shaft bearing was kaput after a year (wish had looked at this prior to gearbox...)

And that's about the extent of it...

Within about 5 minutes of getting it back and overcoming the joy of having my toy back dread filled me as I realised I could still hear this whine. Took it back in immediately and was told "that is weird" and "that doesn't sound like a bearing" and "drive it a while and see if it goes away - if not bring it back in"

In the interest of getting a further opinion:

Can anyone get closer to an accurate diagnosis? Here are the symptoms (with my assumptions):

Whining noise that increases with road speed (does not vary with RPM - rules out input shaft in gearbox)
The noise is present when the TC is in neutral and rowing through the gears (rules out output shaft in TC, diffs, handbrake etc. - so now we have output shaft in gearbox, input shaft in TC and intermediate shaft)
Noise is not present if both gearboxes are in neutral and I roll it up to 60kph+ down a hill (again disqualifies diffs and output shaft in TC + handbrake etc)
Noise increases significantly when in low range - almost to the point when getting up to 50kph or so in 6th it sounds like a carnival ride
Noise seems to become more "whirring" when the clutch is engaged (i.e. when I let go of clutch and it is in gear) but still whines when clutch is stomped in

On which basis it seems like it is most likely transfer case related but still doesn't isolate the output shaft on the gearbox I guess...

I have uploaded some videos from tonight driving in low range. The noise is a high pitched whining noise almost spinning-top like:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jTzPtlgSCgA

From 10 seconds you can hear it in this one like its trying to take off.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sOUB7hTclnk

Can hear in this one decelerating at 9 secs in

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SgFl6po-ZSA

Can hear from when I grind the gears briefly at about 10 seconds in

Any help please! Would be great to have in mind what I want done when I take it back to be fixed properly...

Cheers in advance

carpdvl
Post #793320 16th Sep 2019 1:11pm
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Grenadier



Member Since: 23 Jul 2014
Location: The foot of Mont Blanc...
Posts: 5765

France 2011 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Corris Grey
I get that noise, or used to. Loosened the hand brake drum where it is connected to transfer box. Seems to have stopped it. Think it is nothing more than the drum ‘scuffing’ the opposing face. Try loosening it a bit and see what happens. Also, the drum seems to ‘wind itself on’ during long drives (noticeable with a tighter handbrake lever) which makes it worse. Conversely, I could make it stop when it was whirring by shaking the lever, side to side, up and down and trying to release some tension/add some slack. Seemed to work. Mind you, could be a placebo effect. Rolling with laughter

Loosen off the drum a tad and see what happens.... Thumbs Up Monsieur Le Grenadier

I've not been everywhere, but it's on my list.....

2011 Puma 110DC - Corris Grey
Post #793325 16th Sep 2019 1:17pm
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DG123



Member Since: 29 Aug 2015
Location: North West
Posts: 133

United Kingdom 2012 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 XS CSW Orkney Grey
When did you last change your tyres?

I had an annoying speed related whine that was gradually getting louder and was sure it was the transfer case/diffs. However, I finally changed the original Conti Cross Contacts for KO2’s at 65,000 miles and ‘silence’ - well at least from the whine.

Can hear all the rest of the Defender related cacophony much clearer now Rolling Eyes 2012 110 XS SW Orkney Grey
2003 D2 Td5 Black [SOLD]
Post #793330 16th Sep 2019 1:33pm
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deaallen



Member Since: 15 Feb 2016
Location: Basingstoke
Posts: 262

United Kingdom 2012 Defender 90 Puma 2.2 SW Santorini Black
edit: nm, I was wrong and mine is very different from those in the videos
Post #793331 16th Sep 2019 1:36pm
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carpdvl



Member Since: 30 Jul 2018
Location: Sydney
Posts: 4

Australia 2011 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 SW Alpine White
Grenadier wrote:
I get that noise, or used to. Loosened the hand brake drum where it is connected to transfer box. Seems to have stopped it. Think it is nothing more than the drum ‘scuffing’ the opposing face. Try loosening it a bit and see what happens. Also, the drum seems to ‘wind itself on’ during long drives (noticeable with a tighter handbrake lever) which makes it worse. Conversely, I could make it stop when it was whirring by shaking the lever, side to side, up and down and trying to release some tension/add some slack. Seemed to work. Mind you, could be a placebo effect. Rolling with laughter

Loosen off the drum a tad and see what happens.... Thumbs Up


Thanks Grenadier - I was thinking that myself but then it doesn't explain it happening when stopped and the transfer case is in neutral, or when letting the car coast with both gearboxes in neutral!

It has me stumped - short of assuming that the shop missed something Sad
Post #793332 16th Sep 2019 1:49pm
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carpdvl



Member Since: 30 Jul 2018
Location: Sydney
Posts: 4

Australia 2011 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 SW Alpine White
DG123 wrote:
When did you last change your tyres?

I had an annoying speed related whine that was gradually getting louder and was sure it was the transfer case/diffs. However, I finally changed the original Conti Cross Contacts for KO2’s at 65,000 miles and ‘silence’ - well at least from the whine.

Can hear all the rest of the Defender related cacophony much clearer now Rolling Eyes


Thanks DG. They've been on for just shy of 9 or 10,000 metric units... so what's that... 6,000 or so imperials?

Also unfortunately doesn't explain the whine when stationary and running through gears with the TC in neutral Big Cry
Post #793333 16th Sep 2019 1:50pm
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PAT303



Member Since: 25 Feb 2013
Location: Australia
Posts: 123

Australia 1998 Defender 110 300 Tdi SW Alpine White
Both my Defenders have a whine in neutral, the Tdi has been doing it for 20 years.
Post #793906 18th Sep 2019 11:29pm
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PAT303



Member Since: 25 Feb 2013
Location: Australia
Posts: 123

Australia 1998 Defender 110 300 Tdi SW Alpine White
Just remember that defenders have no sound proofing, they make all types of strange noises because you can hear everything working.
Post #793907 18th Sep 2019 11:32pm
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carpdvl



Member Since: 30 Jul 2018
Location: Sydney
Posts: 4

Australia 2011 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 SW Alpine White
Laughing Yep something I have had to get used to. The perfectionist in me cringes at every new sound though am usually able to discount when they are fairly innocuous.

This noise though has developed over the last 3 months (no problems since owning car for the 18 months prior) and its loud enough in low/highway cruising speeds it concerns me. Last thing I want is to be remote and one of the transmissions to give up the ghost due to a bad bearing or something similar...

Guess what I would like is some expert opinions if anyone has had something similar as to what they think it is so I have some theories with the mechanic when I take it back!
Post #793914 19th Sep 2019 5:53am
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jst



Member Since: 14 Jan 2008
Location: Taunton
Posts: 7664

2011 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 USW Stornoway Grey
carpdvl wrote:
Grenadier wrote:
I get that noise, or used to. Loosened the hand brake drum where it is connected to transfer box. Seems to have stopped it. Think it is nothing more than the drum ‘scuffing’ the opposing face. Try loosening it a bit and see what happens. Also, the drum seems to ‘wind itself on’ during long drives (noticeable with a tighter handbrake lever) which makes it worse. Conversely, I could make it stop when it was whirring by shaking the lever, side to side, up and down and trying to release some tension/add some slack. Seemed to work. Mind you, could be a placebo effect. Rolling with laughter

Loosen off the drum a tad and see what happens.... Thumbs Up


Thanks Grenadier - I was thinking that myself but then it doesn't explain it happening when stopped and the transfer case is in neutral, or when letting the car coast with both gearboxes in neutral!

It has me stumped - short of assuming that the shop missed something Sad


It makes the noise when stopped? If so its engine related.

Handbrake noise as above described by gren would be present when ever the vehicle is moving regardless of gears selected.

Haven't listened to clips yet , will do in due course. Cheers

James
110 XS Utility
130 Puma Station wagon/camper (in the making)
90 Puma Hardtop
Post #793922 19th Sep 2019 6:49am
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