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Hufflepuff



Member Since: 25 Oct 2014
Location: Hampshire
Posts: 723

England 2005 Defender 90 Td5 XS CSW Tonga Green
Front axle identification, and welding advice
I recently picked up what was reportedly a 2010 Defender front axle casing from a breaker, which I cleaned up at the weekend with a wire brush:


Click image to enlarge


prior to a solid painting job.

However, after purchasing this, I found out the problem with the Puma axle welds coming undone, as per the following thread:

https://www.defender2.net/forum/topic33029...;start=105

which is, well less than ideal. I am determining what to do.

I could get the two brackets, which are pretty costly (around £40 a side on ebay at the moment), and they seem like a pretty poor solution to the problem.

As I have the axle out on the bench at the moment I could run a TIG bead around the bottom side - I cannot reach the top side with the brackets in place, but the weight of the vehicle is causing them to tear at the bottom anyway.


Click image to enlarge



Without grinding the lip off though and grinding a V into the casing, I don't think its going to have that much penetration, so I am questioning the benefit of doing it. I don't really want to grind into what could be a perfectly good weld if I can help it, especially as I don't have bullet proof confidence in my TIG welding ability at the moment for something as safety critical as this, having only been welding for 9 months or so so far. I would be happy just running a bead over the top of the lip though, which I guess would be better than nothing.


How do we think Land Rover (or their supplier) welded these in the first place? Are they just friction welded, which causes the lip to form? If it was friction welded, what's with the funny lip around the horizontal weld at the bottom of this picture?


Click image to enlarge



Finally, I could just ignore it and pretend the problem does not exist - after all it appears to be only been a very small number of axles which have failed. To that end, I tried to work out which Defender model this axle actually came from. Here's the start of the serial number:


Click image to enlarge


which makes it a '44M' type. This is a problem - according to the web, there is no such '44M' axle serial number as listed on the following pages:

https://www.lrworkshop.com/axles-differentials/axlecodes
https://www.lrfaq.org/FAQ.3.EngineDrivetrainDataTransfer.html

There is a 44L (from a Range Rover), and a 44S (90" rear axle HD).

Any ideas what on earth this axle is from? 2005 Td5 90 XS
1989 V8 110 CSW
Post #774315 21st May 2019 10:08pm
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blackwolf



Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 16809

United Kingdom 2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Stornoway Grey
If it was mine I would cut off the spring perch, weld the axle end properly, then replace the perch. Depending on my intended use I would possibly reinforce the casing across the width of the axle, military style.

I don't want my axle failing, to the extent that I have the catch brackets fitted even though my vehicle is well outside the affected batch (at least one failure on this forum is also well outside this range, and I don't really trust JLR on this).

Incidentally I don't think either of those web pages are complete or accurate (there is at least one glaring error on the LRW page) and I think the fact you have a 44M axle proves that they exist.
Post #774319 21st May 2019 11:01pm
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williamthedog



Member Since: 29 Dec 2012
Location: south wales
Posts: 3441

2011 Defender 90 Puma 2.4 PU Tamar Blue
If you're a competent welder go for strengthening the axle. I've done the same as blackwolf and put the brackets onto my axle. When I bought mine they were around £25 each so not too much.
Post #774320 22nd May 2019 3:04am
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Bluericky



Member Since: 26 Jun 2014
Location: Cornwall
Posts: 647

United Kingdom 2009 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Keswick Green
I would definitely put the brackets on as the others have said .
My axle failed last year and it was a very unpleasant experience ! The axle didn’t have a double lip, like your pics, it was a single seam and it had clearly failed.
The replacement axle I purchased was from a 2012 and has the double seam like yours . I don’t know if that’s relevant ! https://www.instagram.com/hustynminepark/
Post #774333 22nd May 2019 6:26am
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Hufflepuff



Member Since: 25 Oct 2014
Location: Hampshire
Posts: 723

England 2005 Defender 90 Td5 XS CSW Tonga Green
Thank you for the replies gentlemen.

I think I am leaning towards running a bead over the top of the existing seem, and then shelling out for the 'catch' brackets as additional insurance then. Off to ebay I go Smile 2005 Td5 90 XS
1989 V8 110 CSW
Post #774373 22nd May 2019 11:16am
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dorsetsmith



Member Since: 30 Oct 2011
Location: South West
Posts: 4554

Bo you no the age of land rover your replacement axles from Question
Post #774378 22nd May 2019 11:32am
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Hufflepuff



Member Since: 25 Oct 2014
Location: Hampshire
Posts: 723

England 2005 Defender 90 Td5 XS CSW Tonga Green
It was advertised as a 2010 Defender front axle. It arrived with "Defender" painted on the axle (presumably by the breaker), so I've no reason to believe it wasn't from a Defender.

Its also in pretty good condition with minimal rust (certainly much better than my 1989 one which is will replace!), so I can believe its a 2010 vintage.

I just hope it isn't one which was swapped by Land Rover as part of the recall, and ended up being sold on to a breaker... 2005 Td5 90 XS
1989 V8 110 CSW
Post #774380 22nd May 2019 11:56am
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blackwolf



Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 16809

United Kingdom 2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Stornoway Grey
AFAIK LR didn't swap any as part of the recall unless they had actually cracked.
Post #774385 22nd May 2019 12:17pm
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rallysteve



Member Since: 10 Feb 2014
Location: South Yorks
Posts: 2194

United Kingdom 2002 Defender 110 Td5 DCPU Keswick Green
Just in case you are not aware, the panhard rod bolt size changed from M14 to M16 between your original axle and the new one you have (change was for 02' TD5 i recall). Therefore you will need to change to a later Panhard rod and chassis/steering box mount to fit that later axle.

Not a major issue but annoying if you dont realise until you come to fit it.

Steve 02' 110 TD5 Double Cab Rebuild Thread
84' 90 3.9 V8 Caged Pickup Build Thread


Mobile Diesel Heater Build Thread
Post #774403 22nd May 2019 1:44pm
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Hufflepuff



Member Since: 25 Oct 2014
Location: Hampshire
Posts: 723

England 2005 Defender 90 Td5 XS CSW Tonga Green
Thanks Steve. I must admit I had forgotten about that - I changed the axle after discussion with Gwyn Lewis and he told me what you just said, but it went in one ear and straight out the other.

I'll get an updated chassis/Panhard arm ordered, cheers! 2005 Td5 90 XS
1989 V8 110 CSW
Post #774418 22nd May 2019 3:10pm
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rallysteve



Member Since: 10 Feb 2014
Location: South Yorks
Posts: 2194

United Kingdom 2002 Defender 110 Td5 DCPU Keswick Green
No problems, i had the reverse issue when fitting a 01' casing to my 02' which needed a little head scratching before i realised.

Steve 02' 110 TD5 Double Cab Rebuild Thread
84' 90 3.9 V8 Caged Pickup Build Thread


Mobile Diesel Heater Build Thread
Post #774427 22nd May 2019 4:00pm
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