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nihwrd



Member Since: 12 Apr 2012
Location: Somerset
Posts: 28

Starting Problems
Help please!

My 2008 90 has developed a starting problem, which is to say it won’t!

The car lights up as normal on ignition, but when going to say art all I get is a dull “click” and all the gauges drop to zero and the lights dim. I’ve checked the relay (it clicks) and the fuse (it’s fine). I can get it going by towing, but jumping has no effect.

I’ve had the starter motor out and checked, seems fine (but was a pain to get it out). What am I missing?

Nick
Post #755717 2nd Feb 2019 5:40pm
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andydef90



Member Since: 09 Feb 2015
Location: yorkshire
Posts: 617

United Kingdom 2014 Defender 90 Puma 2.2 HT Corris Grey
have you checked the battery
Post #755839 3rd Feb 2019 7:39am
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nihwrd



Member Since: 12 Apr 2012
Location: Somerset
Posts: 28

I had assumed that as the fault was the same when jump starting it wasn't the battery, but am I wrong?
Post #755843 3rd Feb 2019 8:27am
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shropshiredefender



Member Since: 05 Jun 2017
Location: Shropshire
Posts: 832

England 2011 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 USW Santorini Black
Your problem sounds battery or starter motor related.
Well worth having a drop test done on the battery (or substituting it with a known good one) to eliminate that as the problem before going to more complicated things.
Post #755906 3rd Feb 2019 12:30pm
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custom90



Member Since: 21 Jan 2010
Location: South West, England.
Posts: 19452

United Kingdom 
Check battery voltage and that the clamps are tight, loose battery clamps can cause this. Thumbs Up Diesels Lives Matter. ⛽️🛢️👨‍🔧🧰⚙️
And if You Love the Country, then we’re on the same side ~
I got’ love for Britain, I got’ British pride’. 🇬🇧
Post #755909 3rd Feb 2019 12:33pm
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Cupboard



Member Since: 21 Mar 2014
Location: Suffolk
Posts: 2971

United Kingdom 2011 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 HT Corris Grey
That sounds like a battery or cabling issue, but if you've eliminated all of them then it's worth having a look at the relays under the driver's seat. The main power relay is under there and weird things happen when that goes wrong.

This time last year, I had recurring starting issues, the symptoms were that as the engine turned over the gauges flapped around and it didn't fire. I even tried jump starting it once and that didn't fix it. The fix was to take the relay, wiggle it about a bit and put it back in. That lasted for a week or two, then it would fail again. The long term fix has been to take the relay out, tighten the terminals and put it back in.
Post #756009 3rd Feb 2019 6:28pm
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nihwrd



Member Since: 12 Apr 2012
Location: Somerset
Posts: 28

Still no joy!
So, update:

Voltage tested the battery - 11.9v

Drop tested the battery - no problems.

Voltage at FLU is 11.9v both sides.

Voltage at starter fuse is 11.9v both sides

Removed, wiggled and replaced the starter relay.

Symptoms remain the same, lights etc all work well and start cycle normal until ignition when gauges drop to zero and lights dim but no turn over.

Was thinking immobiliser but only have a simple engine code reader so can't confirm it, but have tried all the normal on/off cycles.

Other than trying a new battery (will try that tomorrow) anyone else got any ideas?

Nick
Post #757558 9th Feb 2019 4:46pm
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MK



Member Since: 28 Aug 2008
Location: Santiago
Posts: 2255

Chile 2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 SW Chawton White
Did you check earth points to chassis (and tbox). Puma 110" SW

.............................................................
Earth first. Other planets later
Post #757564 9th Feb 2019 5:11pm
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lohr500



Member Since: 14 Sep 2014
Location: Skipton
Posts: 1277

United Kingdom 2013 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 XS CSW Santorini Black
If you have jump leads, try running an earth connection direct from the battery to the engine block. If there is no noticeable improvement, then it probably isn't an earthing issue.
Could be a worn/burned out starter that is shorting to earth when engaged.
Post #757586 9th Feb 2019 6:09pm
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shropshiredefender



Member Since: 05 Jun 2017
Location: Shropshire
Posts: 832

England 2011 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 USW Santorini Black
Re: Still no joy!
nihwrd wrote:
So, update:

Voltage tested the battery - 11.9v

Drop tested the battery - no problems.

Nick


From memory resting battery voltage should be around 12.6v
Thumbs Up
Post #757594 9th Feb 2019 6:49pm
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custom90



Member Since: 21 Jan 2010
Location: South West, England.
Posts: 19452

United Kingdom 
^^^^ Yes, typically 12.1 - 12.6v at rest approximately. 13.2 - 14.8v with motor running with alternator charging current.

Have you tested voltage with motor running? If there is not charging voltage that could well be you issue and a sign of Alternator failiure.

Another possibly maybe parasitic drain at rest, drawing a small current from the permanent live reducing voltage lower than it should be whilst off.

Do you have any relay coils energised or any form of low draw current load on it whilst off or incorrectly wired?

There is a milliamperes draw as standard for the Alarm, clock, HU settings etc but so low it's not an issue.
Often up to around 45mA.
A 120mA draw at rest for a few days can drop voltage back enough to cause poor starting.

You can test with a multimeter for parasitic draw by testing current in series at rest.
If it is excessive, if present then it will be parasitic current drain which will need tracing to source.

I had this once with a spotlight Relay, wired in by the previous owner they had the Relay coil permanent 12v energised which caused a small but parasitic draw on the battery which then in turn was reducing battery voltage after a couple of days casing poor starting and leave it long enough and no starting at all.

Loose battery clamps or connections can also cause a lot of issues, check there is no obvious loose connetions at the Alternator, and starter too if possible but I doubt these are issues to be honest. Thumbs Up Diesels Lives Matter. ⛽️🛢️👨‍🔧🧰⚙️
And if You Love the Country, then we’re on the same side ~
I got’ love for Britain, I got’ British pride’. 🇬🇧
Post #757613 9th Feb 2019 8:19pm
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Kev9t



Member Since: 05 Dec 2017
Location: Birmingham
Posts: 27

England 2007 Defender 90 Puma 2.4 CSW Java Black
Hi

Have you took the 10mm earths off the side of the gearbox give them a clean and do them back up also the earth under the driver side wheel arch (bluk head to chassis) this happened to me when I rebuilt mine last year and it was the earths (10mm) on the gearbox drivers side give it a go. Thumbs Up
Post #757632 9th Feb 2019 8:50pm
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nihwrd



Member Since: 12 Apr 2012
Location: Somerset
Posts: 28

Problem Solved!
Hi all

Thanks for all the advice, which was really useful. Problem eventually traced to a faulty ignition barrel, so all well now!

Nick
Post #760611 24th Feb 2019 8:05pm
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leeds



Member Since: 28 Dec 2009
Location: West Yorkshire
Posts: 8578

United Kingdom 
If the battery voltage across the terminals is 11.9 volts then the state of charge of the battery is about 35%

Sounds like your battery could do with a good charge.

Glad you have solved the problem with the ignition barrel.

Now if the battery is the original one it would be getting a bit long in the tooth/tired. Might be worthwhile keeping an eye on its resting voltage.


Brendan
Post #760630 24th Feb 2019 9:52pm
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