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Chris86

Member Since: 15 Jul 2014
Location: South Yorks
Posts: 798

A puzzling problem

Hello,

Wondering whether any TD5 Gurus might be able to help with an ongoing issue that I have with our 110, its been going on for nearly a year now and I'm pretty well getting to the end of my tether with it.

Our 110 has had an unusual issue with idling for nearly a year, at first this manifested as just a quiet, intermittent diesel knock at idle when warm that gradually became more persistent. I changed the injector loom as a precaution having witnessed a similar problem having been down to a fault with the loom no change. This was initially diagnosed by our local independent as an injector performing poorly- I witnessed this on an injector balance test done on a diagnostics machine.

Since then we have had a set of recon injectors in it (non landrover) and the idle was even worse, extremely erratic and had terrible rattling/cackling and poor power when warm at low RPM.

These were then replaced with a set of GENUINE landrover units, the idle improved markedly, but still (to a lesser extent) had a weird cackling/rattling/diesel knock which was at its worst as the engine returned to idle- occasionally when the vehicle is really hot the idle can produce an intermittent 'miss' too.

Since then the local independent has tried a number of things, eventually resulting in a more or less complete strip down in December/January- finding that the Pistons on no.2 & 3 had unusual heat marks and some pitting on the crown, all 5 pistons/rings replaced, rebuilt and the valves re ground, still the problem persists.

The vehicle has been back and forth, and has had number of other things changed, including the Crank position sensor and MAP sensor, but still the problem continues.

Its doubly frustrating that when the vehicle is cold, it runs perfectly, but when as it warms up and gets fully hot through the idle gets poorer, and the rattling/cackling noise as it returns to idle becomes worse and worse.

In the last 18 months it has had;

Fuel Pressure regulator (OEM)- as the original decided to leak.
Injector Loom
Injectors x 5 (Delphi Recon from a diesel injection specialist)
Injectors x 5 (Genuine Landrover)
Pistons and Rings x 5 (+bores honed)
Valves Lapped (+head stripped and examined)
MAP Sensor
Crank Position sensor

I'm Baffled, the local independent are baffled, and the 110 has recently spent some time with Alive- who are also unable to shed any light on it- the current suggestion is that I aquire a Nanocom and try and pinpoint/record data when the fault is occuring.

If anyone has had a similar issue, or could possibly come up with any suggestions as to what steps to try next I would be very very grateful.

Chris

13th Mar 2017 12:10am

mk1collector

Member Since: 17 Sep 2009
Location: West Yorkshire
Posts: 6772

Does it sound like a ball bearing rattling around? And does the engine chirp when switched off? Ray
My build thread
http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic17615.html

13th Mar 2017 12:27am

roel

Member Since: 08 Aug 2009
Location: Lelystad
Posts: 2039

Were the crankshaft bearings checked? Roel

1984 90 2.5 na Diesel - RR V8 (1994-2001)
1997 Camel Trophy Discovery 300TDI (2001-2009)
2005 G4 Discovery III 4.4 V8 (2008-2018) It's gone but it still hurts.
2003 90 Td5 (2009-now)

13th Mar 2017 8:54am

grafty99

Member Since: 15 Aug 2012
Location: North Devon
Posts: 4801

Also has injector lash been set correctly? 2002 90 Td5 Station Wagon
1990 Vogue SE
Triumph Tiger Explorer 1200
Td5 90 Thread http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic50767.html
Tdi 110 Thread https://www.defender2.net/forum/topic69562.html
RRC Thread http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic54492.html
Instagram http://www.instagram.com/george_grafton

13th Mar 2017 8:54am

Chris86

Member Since: 15 Jul 2014
Location: South Yorks
Posts: 798

answers

Hello,

Thanks for taking the time to read and reply!

In answer to your questions.

it does sound like a marble rattling about in a box as it returns to idle and sometimes when its idling, other times its more like a diesel knock. I have not noticed it squeaking when turned off but I'll listen for it when I take it out later. -I'll try and record the noise if I can too.

The crank bearings were inspected when the engine was stripped and the guy from the independent garage was quite happy with them-aside from the marking on the piston crowns he said that the condition of the engine parts was 'remarkable' for a 145k engine.

The lash has been set three times, twice by garages and checked and set a third time by a friend. The injectors were coded too.

Chris

13th Mar 2017 9:51am

Laurie

Member Since: 22 Feb 2008
Location: Sussex, England
Posts: 2897

2005 Defender 90 Td5 XS CSW Bonatti Grey

I'm no expert but has the common rail part of the fuel system been pressure checked? Could be a pinhole leak bypassing an injector.

13th Mar 2017 12:02pm

Chris86

Member Since: 15 Jul 2014
Location: South Yorks
Posts: 798

video of the bad idle

I have just managed to get a short video of it when its idling poorly and idling normally, I have no idea how to upload them though!

13th Mar 2017 8:12pm

Paulv8

Member Since: 09 Jun 2013
Location: Milton Keynes
Posts: 618

1989 Defender 90 V8 Petrol CSW Alpine White

When the injectors were replaced, we're they correctly coded in the ecu? V8 90...WIP

13th Mar 2017 8:27pm

Paulv8

Member Since: 09 Jun 2013
Location: Milton Keynes
Posts: 618

It's also worth checking the gauze filter in the fpr... V8 90...WIP

13th Mar 2017 8:28pm

Chris86

Member Since: 15 Jul 2014
Location: South Yorks
Posts: 798

video of the bad idle

Video of the bad idle when hot

Video of it idling normally when cold

13th Mar 2017 8:29pm

Mdm

Member Since: 11 Sep 2013
Location: Sunny Lancashire
Posts: 1647

hmm bit of a good one

did you use new head bolts etc on the rebuild?

we have had a similar issue on a disco and the ecu was failing.

replaced with a good one from another car,coded up injectors etc

poor remaps often lead to these strange symptoms as well

13th Mar 2017 8:59pm

Chris86

Member Since: 15 Jul 2014
Location: South Yorks
Posts: 798

rebuild

Yes, it was all done with new bits, it has done this both on standard mapping and its had a different map tried on it to see if it was a firmware or mapping issue.

Alive tried a different ECU on it, but they weren't able to get it to reproduce the fault with either ECU.

Its a very frustrating fault, and it gets increasingly bad the hotter it gets- this was after a quick blast down a few motorway junctions and back.

Chris

13th Mar 2017 9:11pm

grafty99

Member Since: 15 Aug 2012
Location: North Devon
Posts: 4801

Could be the crank sensor. It sounds like it's hunting a bit 2002 90 Td5 Station Wagon
1990 Vogue SE
Triumph Tiger Explorer 1200
Td5 90 Thread http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic50767.html
Tdi 110 Thread https://www.defender2.net/forum/topic69562.html
RRC Thread http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic54492.html
Instagram http://www.instagram.com/george_grafton

13th Mar 2017 9:19pm

Chris86

Member Since: 15 Jul 2014
Location: South Yorks
Posts: 798

crank sensor

@grafty, its had a new crank sensor

My wife was just tickling the throttle to demonstrate it at its worst during the video...... It wasn't fully hot through so was still settling (eventually)

Chris

13th Mar 2017 9:28pm

grafty99

Member Since: 15 Aug 2012
Location: North Devon
Posts: 4801

Has the timing been checked? 2002 90 Td5 Station Wagon
1990 Vogue SE
Triumph Tiger Explorer 1200
Td5 90 Thread http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic50767.html
Tdi 110 Thread https://www.defender2.net/forum/topic69562.html
RRC Thread http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic54492.html
Instagram http://www.instagram.com/george_grafton

13th Mar 2017 9:32pm

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