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Caterham

Member Since: 06 Nov 2008
Location: Birmingham
Posts: 6331

2011 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 XS CSW Stornoway Grey

blackwolf.

all sorted and still going well?

would you mind confirming the part number please (and cost)?

many thanks.

16th Dec 2013 9:17am

bell-auto-services

Member Since: 08 Jul 2007
Location: North Yorkshire
Posts: 2233

2013 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 USW Orkney Grey

The landrover part number is LR009837, £116.31+vat from Landrover retail.

How-to PDF here https://www.defender2.net/gallery/albums/u...VCV%20.pdf

Pete

Last edited by bell-auto-services on 16th Dec 2013 10:45am. Edited 1 time in total

16th Dec 2013 10:43am

blackwolf

Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 17767

2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Stornoway Grey

I was planning on posting an update today!

It is now just over a week and approximately 500 miles since I fitted the replacement VCV to the fuel pump and I am delighted to say that the Defender has been running very smoothly since, with not the slightest hint of the problems I was experiencing. I therefore declare this problem repaired!

My conclusion in the light of this is that the root cause was the contamination of the fuel, probably caused by the fact that the LR-rerouted tank breather still terminated in a wet and muddy location which cause dirt and moisture to be drawn into the tank, which in turm eventually, allowed "the diesel bug" to grow.

The moisture, dirt, and bioslime collectively eventually caused the VCV to malfunction, causing the symptoms of fuel starvation described earlier in the thread. Upon reflection, I don't actually think that the filter was ever blocked - it was the time spent stationary draining the filter that allowed the VCV to "unstick" and work for a bit longer. My reasoning for this is fisrtly that the symptoms were exactly the same after I have cleaned the fuel and tank within an inch of its life, and secondly that I have seen fuel filters far worse than mine on vehicles which are still running better than mine was, however I cannot be sure and it is possible that the biologicals were blocking the filter, at least to start with.

Converstaions with a very experienced main dealer technician have also revealed that the VCV is easily damaged and it almost inevitably needs to be replaced if any significant amount of moisture has got in the tank. He reported that every single vehicle (and there was quite a few) that his dealership had had through under warranty with contaminated fuel due to the breather issue had also to have a new VCV fitted. The Ford parts department where I bought my valve also said that they sell "hundreds" of the valves (probably an exaggeration, but they evidently sell enough for him to know the part number off by heart).

The part which needed replacing on the pump was the Volume Control Valve (described in both LR and Ford parts catalogues as a "Fuel Vapour Valve" for some reason, which is odd since it is nothing of the kind, but "volume control valve" describes its purpose perfectly).

The Landrover part number is LR009837, and the cost from LR approx £190.

The Ford part numberis 1 514 885 (engineering part number 6C1Q 9358 AB) and the cost from Ford is approx £130.

It is worth noting that there is absolutely no visible fault with the old valve - it was clean as a whistle, and the plunger-ma-bob can be pushing in manually and springs back by itself in exactly the same way as the new valve, so there is no way at all visually to tell that it is faulty. I very nearly refitted the old valve thinking that it must be OK after inspecting it, and only the fact that I have very high regard indeed for the LR tech who suggested it made be fit a new one!

Fitting the new valve is very straightfoward although access isn't great. There is one electrical connector to disconnect, and then two torx head screws hold the valve into the back face of the pump. There is a gasket and an O-ring forming a seal. So unplug, unscrew, remove old one - insert new one, secure with screws, and re-plug connector. No additional dismantling is necessary. It is necessary however to do a "pump replacement" operation using Faultmate or similar to recalibrate the valve/pump afterwards. The whole job can be done in under half-an-hour.

It is worth noting that a faulty VCV can cause severe rough running and driveability issues (mine was effectively undriveable) without triggering any DTRs at all. I still don't really understand how this is possible, since I would have expected to see a low fuel rail pressure DTC, but you don't, there were no faults logged of any kind.

If you are suffering from symptoms that scream "fuel starvation", have a clean filter and clean fuel, and have no DTCs being logged, I strongly recommend replacing the VCV, and if you;ve ever had water or dirt in the tank especially so. I also recommend that you check that your breather terminates somewhere clean and dry - I really don't think that any of the original placements (behind the NSR wheel, rerouted behind the NSR wheel splashguard, or later on top of the tank between the chassis rails) are at all suitable for a vehicle designed to be used in arduous and dirty conditions.

16th Dec 2013 10:44am

blackwolf

Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 17767

Pete's post and mine crossed in the writing!

I was quoted a significantly higher price from LR than £116+VAT (it was £160 + VAT!). Ford was £116 + VAT. It probably pays to shop around.

I also did the job without a "pneumatic vacuum gun" and without a torque scerwdriver capable of such tiny torque figures as mentioned in the instructions, and it all worked fine.

I would and should however record again my thanks to Pete and to Lorryman100, both of whom have been fantastic with their freely-given help and advice!

16th Dec 2013 10:49am

Caterham

Member Since: 06 Nov 2008
Location: Birmingham
Posts: 6331

guess what I'll be doing just as soon as I can

16th Dec 2013 11:17am

bm52

Member Since: 04 Apr 2010
Location: Kent
Posts: 2189

2014 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 XS CSW Havana

Thank you all for all this very useful information following a lot of time researching the issues and finding the resolution.

STICKY - could I suggest that a summary of the above is added as a sticky under Maint & Mods or the Technical section?

Kind regards BM52

16th Dec 2013 11:51am

Caterham

Member Since: 06 Nov 2008
Location: Birmingham
Posts: 6331

Well what a surprise......

Just phoned to order up part and they have a few in stock cos they're v popular.

(and that's just the small ford garage just down the road).

19th Dec 2013 10:28am

duckworthparts
Site Sponsor

Member Since: 30 Jun 2011
Location: Market Rasen
Posts: 631

LR RRP is £116+

Forum £93+VAT https://www.facebook.com/duckworthparts

Send a paypal payment direct using this link www.paypal.me/duckworthparts

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My Direct Line: 01673 849873
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Can also supply OEM & Aftermarket parts

19th Dec 2013 2:08pm

blackwolf

Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 17767

That's a very good price!

19th Dec 2013 7:29pm

bm52

Member Since: 04 Apr 2010
Location: Kent
Posts: 2189

Amazon - it must be a very popular part if Amazon sell it

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Ford-Transit-Vapou...ds=1514885 BM52

19th Dec 2013 9:32pm

bell-auto-services

Member Since: 08 Jul 2007
Location: North Yorkshire
Posts: 2233

They are getting more and more common to be needing replaced, the other one that causes problems sometimes is the leak off valve in the end of the rail.

Pete

19th Dec 2013 9:48pm

Caterham

Member Since: 06 Nov 2008
Location: Birmingham
Posts: 6331

duckworths - very good price thank you.

Apologies if I've missed it but I'm sure I read somewhere this was a 20min fix.

well I've just been quoted a discounted price of £360 to fit !

Pete,

I suspect (and its only that) that this part is becoming more popular as people are starting to realise the problem they've lived was indeed normal. Maybe more and more garages are topping up will water to improve profit margins

- I don't know but what I do know is I can't wait to see if this is the fix I've been looking for for so long.

having had so many different people tell me mine is fine (and to be fair within the first week or two of ownership I drove another demo and it seemed the same?? -that kind of suggests its me doesn't it?

) The other strange thing is this vcv part is very common with the Fords yet until very recently I'd not heard mention of it on here and yet with the early puma's having a dodgy fuel tank breather set up I'd have thought this would have been a common issue years ago? there was always the issue of replacement fuel rail sensors before but not the vcv (unless this was one of the same thing but not very well described?)

anyhow I've got the part just desperate to get it fitted now.

if it is the fix then I can't help but think that either LR don't want to fix the problem to save money, don't want to admit to it, don't understand their vehicles unless there's a fault code to work off, or I've just been unlucky and always spoken to a numpty (perhaps they've all thought I was a numpty and wanted me to feel 'at home')

23rd Dec 2013 10:26am

blackwolf

Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 17767

That is an outrageous price! I kid you not, 20 mins to change the part is about right. It took me about 40 mins but that included finding the tools and putting them away afterwards.

It's one plug and two screws to change the valve (true access is awkward), then 5 mins with Faultmate or equivalent to recalibrate the pump.

23rd Dec 2013 4:33pm

Caterham

Member Since: 06 Nov 2008
Location: Birmingham
Posts: 6331

yep.

so much for my 'extended' warranty.

if this is proven to be faulty it won't be the first thing I've ended up fixing under warranty.

23rd Dec 2013 4:36pm

Lorryman100

Member Since: 01 Oct 2010
Location: Here
Posts: 2686

Glad you finally solved the issue BW. Did you find any calcification deposits in the VCV spring?? This is a learning curve for me and any info would be greatly appreciated.

29th Dec 2013 10:51pm

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