 | Home > Technical > 2.4 Puma with intermittent starting problem – HELP |
 
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| Dtm Member Since: 11 Feb 2017 Location: Essex Posts: 11   
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Thanks dorsetsmith, I had seen that there was an immobiliser in/out on the instrument cluster and thought it must process the signal in some way.
Have traced the signal wire through from 10as to instrument cluster -all good, instrument cluster to ECU - all good, have tested the earths from ecu to 10as and to battery, all seem to have a low resistance (0.1-0.3 ohms) When i test the instrument cluster pin 3 and 4 are not linked when turned off? I guess they are connected once power is connected to the module? Is this correct? If so the fault may well be generated by the instrument clusster not relaying the signal? dose the instrument cluster check for anything b4 relaying the signal? I think someone with a better computer to read the fault codes may help, but getting the vehcile to someone while it is faulting atm is very unlikely due to the speradic nature of the error. . . Do errors get logged and saved in the computer with a date/time or dose it all just log errors in a list? Not sure where to take this now . . . |
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8th Mar 2017 7:59am |
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| Dtm Member Since: 11 Feb 2017 Location: Essex Posts: 11
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Now that I am looking at the instrument cluster again, I notice that when I try to start the engine (either when she is working ok or when the fault occurs) the engine warning light flickers when she first turns on? Is this normal? You can see it in the video I originally posted:-
If this is not normal, it could be pointing to a fault in the instrument cluster or function of it.... Let me know if that is normal or not, many thanks and all the advice is greatly received as this problem is a nightmare! |
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8th Mar 2017 1:21pm |
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| stevejhunt Member Since: 18 Jul 2015 Location: Castleford Posts: 1 
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Hi Dtm
Sounds like you have same problem as me. My bus is same as yours - farm spec 2008my 90 Hard Top 2.4Tdci. Has keyed doors and ignition, no immobiliser fob etc etc. Had no bother with it till a flat battery back in December gone. As it was original battery that was changed and then the problem started. Basically I turn key in ignition, it fires and then dies immediately. Took it to my local LR expert who has been trying to sort it ever since. After much discussion between him and JLR it seems there is a known fault that develops with communication between the 10AS and ECU on the early PUMAs. As I understand what he's telling me it basically immobilises itself everytime I try to start it. Solution JLR have sold him is a new 10AS and a load of wires to upgrade to the higher wiring spec (complete with key fob) and then a re-programme to get everything talking - which comes in at just shy of £600 for the parts. My man is on with the job and hopes to have me up and running next week although I'm not holding my breath. After four months of down time tho I hope that he's right. Fingers crossed and I'll let you know outcome next week! Steve 2008 Defender 90 Hard Top. 2015 Range Rover Evoque SD4 Dynamic. |
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12th Apr 2017 11:49am |
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| Cuffy Member Since: 07 Sep 2017 Location: Essex Posts: 3  
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Hi
In searching with info on my starting problem, I found this thread is the same prob I am experiencing but the thread never reached a conclusion Can anyone help with the outcome |
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1st Dec 2018 4:39pm |
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| psyla Member Since: 22 Dec 2019 Location: nsw Posts: 2 
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Hi all
did anyone find the cause of this fault, seems to be very common with no real answers, my 07 110 has started doing this and all i can find is that the engine ecm is causing the the engine to stop cranking, fault in harness but more likely a faulty sensor. what sensors could cause this. wish it would stop altogether so i could figure it out Any answers would be appreciated. |
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23rd Dec 2019 3:59am |
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| Fernando Member Since: 25 Oct 2017 Location: CABA Posts: 93  
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¿Hilo muerto?
 |
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11th Dec 2021 10:46pm |
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| HardCharger Member Since: 03 Mar 2013 Location: Manila Posts: 768  
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Did you guys actually replace the ignition switch or were just content with testing and cleaning it? From the first vid posted, it sounds like the problem I had recently and it was definitely the ignition switch. These fail for no apparent reason so if you're buying one, buy another one for cheap insurance!
Start with this before mucking about with the 10AS which can be a pain in the @$$ Good luck |
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13th Dec 2021 6:13am |
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| LandRoverAnorak Member Since: 17 Jul 2011 Location: Surrey Posts: 11325
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I replaced my ignition switch for what appears to be exactly this problem only yesterday. Bloomin' fiddly on a Puma but not impossible. See the details here:
https://www.defender2.net/forum/post933318.html#933318 Darren 110 USW BUILD THREAD - EXPEDITION TRAILER - 200tdi 90 BUILD THREAD - SANKEY TRAILER - IG@landroveranorak "You came in that thing? You're braver than I thought!" - Princess Leia |
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13th Dec 2021 8:01am |
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| X4SKP Member Since: 29 Nov 2013 Location: Berkshire Posts: 2303 
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Well done LRA / Darren
It is indeed fiddly but I now know 'antidotally' that my trusted Independent sees about 1-2 Defenders a month with this type of Intermittent Starting Problem and even if it isn't the Lucus Ignition Switch they swap it out... (In their view its a case of when not if) I now carry a Spare (which of course I hope to never need 'out in the field') For those who find themselves with similar issues (and I learnt via the long route) I would start with this component... 'change one thing' and see if you get a result... 
My Fix.. https://www.defender2.net/forum/topic56773...p;start=45 SKIP https://www.defender2.net/forum/topic83242.html |
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13th Dec 2021 10:47am |
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| DL12345 Member Since: 07 Jun 2025 Location: Glasgow Posts: 2 
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Hi Folks,
I recently bought my first Defender 90, loving it. It has the same intermittent starting problem explained here in thread 52555 where (copying & pasting from Dtm's thread): When the fault occurs the starter relay cuts out, this is due to the signal circuit not being grounded via the ECM (when she is working the ECM grounds pin c0872-l2 completing the circuit allowing it to work) Could I ask how you resolved this? Hope it was fixable. Thanks, David |
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7th Jun 2025 10:21am |
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| Ianh Member Since: 17 Sep 2018 Location: Essex Posts: 2397
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2 things to check,
firstly it could be the Instrument cluster, so when it does not start you remove the instrument cluster, disconnect the wiring connector, bridge pins 3 and 4 on the connector with a bit of solid wire / paper clip etc. Then with the connector still disconnected from the Instrument cluster try to start vehicle. If it now starts then it’s the known 2.4 Instrument cluster issue. There is a whole topic on here regarding this issue and two fixes, so if this is proved to be the issue 1st fix is to cut wires to pins 3 and 4 and join them. This will bypass the Custer, show up a DTC on a scan tool, but not impact the working of the vehicle. 2nd solution is to contact Martin on here and he can fix the cluster via his business. The other thing to check is the ignition switch and wiring and connectors to it, a new switch does not require a new ignition barrel etc , you can just buy and fit the switch part. This is a fiddly job , again lots of topics on how to do it on here. |
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7th Jun 2025 1:23pm |
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| DL12345 Member Since: 07 Jun 2025 Location: Glasgow Posts: 2
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Hi Ian,
Thanks for the response, appreciated. Do you know what the instrument cluster is doing with pins 3 & 4? It must be checking status of something and deciding to link 3 & 4 when status is deemed good. Also do you know where the immobilizer is connected? If I link pins 3 & 4 together do I bypass the immobilizer? Thanks, David |
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8th Jun 2025 11:50am |
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| Ianh Member Since: 17 Sep 2018 Location: Essex Posts: 2397
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For the 2.4 Puma the Instrument cluster (IC) connector Pin 3 receives the de immobilise signal from the 10AS alarm unit, it goes into the IC printed circuit board where I believe some info extracted by the IC chips and fed to the CAN bus. I also believe the de immobilise signal from pin 3 is permanently ( not switched) sent out on pin 4 of the IC connector which goes to the engine ECU.
The issue that arises is the soldering on the IC can fail, preventing the signal from the 10AS getting to the engine ECU. I.e pin 3 disconnected from pin 4 .This can be an intermittent issue. See wiring diagram https://www.lrworkshop.com/wiring-diagram/...nt-cluster Member , and site owner , Martin can confirm or correct above. On the 2.2 the wiring between the 10AS or later ALM units does not go via the IC, removing this potential failure point. This topic may help https://www.defender2.net/forum/topic87276...+connector Ps this is just an easy way to prove it is the IC or not, if not the next test is the ignition, I would also check relays are seated and the battery terminal clamps ate well seated and tight. |
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8th Jun 2025 12:55pm |
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