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Ianb



Member Since: 25 Oct 2023
Location: Devon
Posts: 99

United Kingdom 
Fault help
Hi all, currently just off the M6 near Warrington and Defender started making a pretty unheard sound...

Posted a vid of it on FB, https://www.facebook.com/groups/5367181270...4211335756 (not sure if link will work...) does anyone have any ideas?

Cheers The Yeti - 110 Camper https://www.defender2.net/forum/topic90308.html
https://www.youtube.com/@YetitheDefender
Post #1024426 11th Feb 2024 10:18pm
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L110CDL



Member Since: 31 Oct 2015
Location: Devon
Posts: 10358

England 
How have you got on Ianb ? 1996 Golf Blue 300Tdi 110 Pick up. Keeper.


Clayton.
Post #1024550 12th Feb 2024 9:01pm
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Ianb



Member Since: 25 Oct 2023
Location: Devon
Posts: 99

United Kingdom 
Still waiting for replies on the edge of the M6 - food running low Rolling with laughter

All sorted!!!

So tried a bunch of Landy garages who couldn't fit us in, then called out AA who didn't give me the advice that I had hoped for... But to be fair to the guy, he (and we) probably didn't know that if it was in gear and handbrake on then it'd all locked in position.

We drove up a little longer until we got near Kendal, noise still worrying us. Phoned a garage in Kendal (Gibsons of Kendal) who tried to preliminarily diagnose over the phone, but said come in after lunch. We arrived, he hopped in and we went for a spin, he then took us back, drove us on the ramp and we were all underneath it as he pointed out it was indeed the UJ on the front propshaft. Had us in the waiting room and explained the UJ right in front of us and how it works and all the bits and bobs on it, then explained the duff one that was on there was a cheap one with no greasing nipples! Really great guys and learned a lot about Defenders from Alan in the short time we were there. Would return to them in a heartbeat and they're definitely on my emergency list next time Rolling with laughter The Yeti - 110 Camper https://www.defender2.net/forum/topic90308.html
https://www.youtube.com/@YetitheDefender
Post #1026249 28th Feb 2024 11:21am
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custom90steve



Member Since: 21 Jan 2010
Location: South West, England.
Posts: 19318

United Kingdom 
You can run in 2wd with the diff lock without it, being careful to realise it’ll drive slightly different.
Take it easy and it is fine to do that, as it’s the front you don’t even need to worry about the handbrake either, just take the front prop off.
Thumbs Up Diesels Lives Matter. ⛽️🛢️👨‍🔧🧰⚙️
And if You Love the Country, then we’re on the same side ~
I got’ love for Britain, I got’ British pride’. 🇬🇧
Post #1026268 28th Feb 2024 3:43pm
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Ianb



Member Since: 25 Oct 2023
Location: Devon
Posts: 99

United Kingdom 
Hey Steve,
I read about that during the parked up worrying part of the trip Laughing but I wasn't really sure about it... if you wouldn't mind, are you able to explain how to do that? Would I need to remove the front propshaft? I wasn't sure if that was the impression I was getting or whether I was just way off piste with that. Also would it have been fine for motorway speeds?

Everything in my uneducated mind seemed to come to the conclusion that all I'd be doing is turning the defender into a rear wheel drive car ( Whistle sports car) but what I didn't want to do is assume something and turn what was a cheap and quick fix into a new gearbox or something like that.

Edit:
The main problem with the whole thing was that we had left Devon with the intentions of doing a long haul drive up to Scotland (inc night driving) and that hearing a pretty unpleasant squealing sound at a petrol station hundreds of miles from home and after 10pm on a Sunday night was no fun at all.
The whole situation has been a good learning curve really and made me super keen to learn much more. Just thankful it happened in the UK and on our first trip, rather than overseas. The Yeti - 110 Camper https://www.defender2.net/forum/topic90308.html
https://www.youtube.com/@YetitheDefender
Post #1026269 28th Feb 2024 3:52pm
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Dinnu



Member Since: 24 Dec 2019
Location: Lija
Posts: 3101

Malta 2012 Defender 90 Puma 2.2 CSW Santorini Black
Yes, you would have to completely remove the front prop shaft. And yes, need to be in center diff lock else you would not go anywhere Laughing
Knowing the internals of the transfer case, there are absolutely no risks of damage (I have actually done about 300miles at motorway speeds in one go without a front prop shaft) as long as you take it easy on the lower gears. You will however hear some clunking as there is a bit of clearance in the center diff lock. 1988 90 Hard Top, 19J Diesel Turbo, Shire Blue - Restoration ongoing
2012 90 CSW, 2.2TDCI, Santorini Black
Post #1026270 28th Feb 2024 4:19pm
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custom90steve



Member Since: 21 Jan 2010
Location: South West, England.
Posts: 19318

United Kingdom 
Yes, that’s correct, unbolt the front prop shaft completely, if there is captive bolts, put the nuts back on them in situ without the prop shaft and you would be good to go.
Not a long term solution, but would be okay as long as you remember load is on rear axle so you’d just go easy putting power down for example.

Back when I replaced my prop shaft UJ’s I went weeks in 2WD with no problem at all.
And the front is easier than the rear, as you still have the active handbrake with the rear prop in place.
If you wanted to take the rear off you’d need to ensure the handbrake drum was kept bolted on.
As there is a little bit of thread clearance needed on the back you’d need some washers to put on the bolts, to clear then the securing nuts. At least on mine it was the case.

In your case removing the front prop is a lot easier and safer overall, you can get underneath with the rear handbrake on and chock the wheels and take the front prop off.
Pre soak the nuts and threads with WD40 for as long as possible beforehand.
Propshaft bolt / nut tool is useful, but you can still do it without.
Just be careful not to damage the threads or nuts, on the captive bolts in particular.
Other than that you’ll be fine, and give you some time to get it fixed or a replacement.
As I said just go easy as the handling will be different, I wouldn’t heavy tow or go off the road but for basic getting about you’ll be fine. To be honest you’d notice little difference.
Check the rear prop over though, as you’d be relying upon it, when I did mine I replaced the UJ’s on both props, as if you replace the front, the rear will follow not long after usually.
A bit like tyres, I think the pair are best matched up.

I wouldn’t run it long term like it, but is quite sufficient for the time being to get it sorted out.
I have before for weeks on end, not a problem in any way.

Hope that helps. Thumbs Up
With the Defender wheels chocked and handbrake on, keep her in neutral. Jack up one when just a little I’d suggest the side away from the diff, just enough so the wheel can spin free. That’ll let you articulate the prop to unbolt it easily.
It’s imperative the handbrake is on, parked on flat ground and chock all of the wheels securely.
I find concrete blocks to be ideal wheel chocks, but there are more jazzy options out there.
I prefer to chock all the wheels on the ground, it’s always safer even if a bit more work. Only upon flat ground and don’t get under the jacked up side, especially if the wheel isn’t on under any circumstances.
An axle stand can be worthwhile, but normally only needed imo if the wheels comes off to be safe but this is something you don’t need to do for this job.
As it’s the front prop the handbrake also is extra security, it’s removing the rear prop where you have to be extra careful, as if one wheel is lifted to the rear even with the handbrake on it will be unsecure only relying on wheel chocks which is why I’d never recommend doing anything like it unless it’s off the road and on flat ground.
The trouble is if you don’t jack it up just a little to freely spin the wheel and prop, it’ll make it more harder to get at the fixings, and means it’s got no load upon it either making it easier and safer.
The nyloc nuts can be reused a few times, or replaced. They are tightened to a specific torque found in the WSM. (Can find that for you if needed).
Once it is off you can replace the UJ’s such as with some GKN ones, or get a replacement prop.
The latter option here is easier but more expense. Diesels Lives Matter. ⛽️🛢️👨‍🔧🧰⚙️
And if You Love the Country, then we’re on the same side ~
I got’ love for Britain, I got’ British pride’. 🇬🇧
Post #1026273 28th Feb 2024 4:46pm
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custom90steve



Member Since: 21 Jan 2010
Location: South West, England.
Posts: 19318

United Kingdom 
Dinnu - Thumbs Up Diesels Lives Matter. ⛽️🛢️👨‍🔧🧰⚙️
And if You Love the Country, then we’re on the same side ~
I got’ love for Britain, I got’ British pride’. 🇬🇧
Post #1026274 28th Feb 2024 4:47pm
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blackwolf



Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 16701

United Kingdom 2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Stornoway Grey
If you do have to run with out a front propshaft (or indeed with only a front propshaft) try to avoid the use of low box, since there is a much increased risk of breaking a halfshaft.

Based on personal experience also try to avoid driving in snow. I say this because I found out in about 1982 that it is massively embarrassing to have a front-wheel-drive-only Land-Rover in heavy snow since it has next-to-no traction, yet everyone expects it to be brilliant. I had the misfortune to break the rear propshaft of my then daily-driver 80" Series I and even then finding an 80" rear shaft wasn't easy. It was just my luck that it coincided with some of the best snow we had had in years. Big Cry Laughing
Post #1026276 28th Feb 2024 5:03pm
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custom90steve



Member Since: 21 Jan 2010
Location: South West, England.
Posts: 19318

United Kingdom 
That is good advice indeed, especially considering during normal road use all is well in normal conditions but off road, if there is sudden traction that is obtained that shock is doubled.
It’s a good solution to carry on without being left high and dry.

I seem to remember, vaguely, that going FWD was a little more lively to drive than RWD.
I found it really helpful when I did the work on the prop UJ’s on mine when I had issues.
I could basically carry on as normal and use it, and take my time.
The only two things I refrained from was going off road which is rare for me lately and from towing for a while.

Typically as I thought I saw the other day the UJ’s have gone up in price from when I last saw them, but still considerably cheaper than a new Prop.
I very much like Gwyn Lewis’s props, but for my uses I can’t really justify the cost, I am sure that the build quality is excellent and these things are costly to have built to precision and high quality.
They do have advantages to standard for sure, but, with mine from the factory (genuine LR) with new GKN UJ’s regularity greased every 3 months Approx they’ve been perfect.

Be sure to check grease nipples / zerks are all present, otherwise the water goes straight in, some were missing on mine.
Which no doubt caused the problems I had. Diesels Lives Matter. ⛽️🛢️👨‍🔧🧰⚙️
And if You Love the Country, then we’re on the same side ~
I got’ love for Britain, I got’ British pride’. 🇬🇧
Post #1026295 28th Feb 2024 8:10pm
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Ianb



Member Since: 25 Oct 2023
Location: Devon
Posts: 99

United Kingdom 
Absolutely amazing and great info from everyone, thank you all so much!

It better stay in my knowledge bank now as no doubt it won't be the last time there is something like this and it'd be far more pleasant to tackle it armed with some knowledge and not just assumptions/hopes! The Yeti - 110 Camper https://www.defender2.net/forum/topic90308.html
https://www.youtube.com/@YetitheDefender
Post #1026308 28th Feb 2024 10:17pm
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trevorg



Member Since: 28 May 2022
Location: Aisne
Posts: 41

France 2012 Defender 90 Puma 2.2 SW Indus Silver
I am confused (but that’s nothing new), being a relative newbie to Defenders, and transfer boxes in particular, can someone explain these terminologies please:
“You can run in 2wd with the diff lock without it”?
Also “need to be in center diff lock”?
Thanks,
Trevor
Post #1026312 28th Feb 2024 10:29pm
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Dinnu



Member Since: 24 Dec 2019
Location: Lija
Posts: 3101

Malta 2012 Defender 90 Puma 2.2 CSW Santorini Black
The Defender has 3 differentials, one in each axle, and one in the transfer case.
A normal, open differential takes one power input and distributes that power to 2 outputs in equal torque. So for example when one wheel on an axle lifts off the ground, the torque that wheel can handle = 0Nm, so the other wheel on the opposite side of the axle will have no drive, 0Nm of torque as well.

So the same happens in the transfer case, only difference is that the center diff outputs equal torque to the front and rear axle. If a prop shaft is removed, the respective flange for that prop shaft would just spin (zero torque) and the other prop shaft will not turn.

With center diff lock engaged, with transfer case lever to the left, the front and rear prop shafts are locked together, so when a prop shaft is removed, the other prop shaft still turns and transmits power.

So in normal situation, once a Defender looses traction on one wheel, you are stuck. Engage center diff lock, and then you have to loose traction on 2 wheels (one front, one rear) to get stuck.

For normal road use, do not use center diff lock. Only use when you anticipate a low traction surface. 1988 90 Hard Top, 19J Diesel Turbo, Shire Blue - Restoration ongoing
2012 90 CSW, 2.2TDCI, Santorini Black
Post #1026321 29th Feb 2024 5:20am
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trevorg



Member Since: 28 May 2022
Location: Aisne
Posts: 41

France 2012 Defender 90 Puma 2.2 SW Indus Silver
Hi Dinnu, now I get it! Thanks.
Post #1026378 29th Feb 2024 3:49pm
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custom90steve



Member Since: 21 Jan 2010
Location: South West, England.
Posts: 19318

United Kingdom 
Very well explained. Thumbs Up Diesels Lives Matter. ⛽️🛢️👨‍🔧🧰⚙️
And if You Love the Country, then we’re on the same side ~
I got’ love for Britain, I got’ British pride’. 🇬🇧
Post #1026395 29th Feb 2024 6:43pm
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