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DuncanS

Member Since: 07 Dec 2013
Location: Cumbria
Posts: 295

2008 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 USW Santorini Black

Starting Issues (Fuel Pressure?)

Hi all.

Having a few starting issues currently on my 2.4 engine and can't pin down where to start looking.

It seems like a fuelling issue as it wants to crank for quite a bit before starting. No codes issued, but there does seem to be a fuel rail pressure sensor that isn't getting to pressure before it tries to fire.

I'm not sure if this is as a result of depressurisation on the high side, or something else, but it drives as fine as it usually does (another story) and usually restarts fine, although sometimes can briefly reoccur even after a short period of being off.

I think secondarily to this issue of cranking the starter and battery is now getting tired of the extra effort so need to get it nipped in the bud.

Recently (and prior to this happening) it's had a new turbo, new injectors and new exhaust manifold (and it's still flippin loosening bolts and whistling)

Thanks in advance all!

Duncan North Cumbria Search and Rescue - Team Leader

10th Jan 2024 6:42pm

custom90

Member Since: 21 Jan 2010
Location: South West, England.
Posts: 19578

Sounds like VCV, does it Rev hunt when cold?

It is very cold right now, so starting will be more troublesome anyway which is normal but VCV can cause significant problems like that and no diagnostic codes for it. Diesel$ Live$ Matter. ⛽️🛢️👨‍🔧🧰⚙️ RED, WHITE & BOOST! 🇬🇧

10th Jan 2024 6:52pm

DuncanS

Member Since: 07 Dec 2013
Location: Cumbria
Posts: 295

No rev hunting at all, and that got replaced when it had all the work done. North Cumbria Search and Rescue - Team Leader

10th Jan 2024 7:02pm

bear100

Member Since: 22 Mar 2010
Location: South Wales
Posts: 1867

2010 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 USW Santorini Black

Glow plugs? i fitted new branded ones to mine in the summer, and just had to replace them due too 3 failing

the original lasted 10 years+!

Air in fuel rail? 2016 Range Rover Autobiography 4.4 TDV8
2010 110 XS Utility 2.4TDCI
2010 Range Rover Sport TDV8 (gone)
2007 Discovery HSE TDV6 (gone)
1993 110 csw 200 tdi (gone)
1994 90 HT 300 tdi (gone)
1994 discovery 300tdi (gone)
90 hybrid 3.5 v8 (gone)
Range rover bobtail 3.5 v8 (gone)

10th Jan 2024 7:53pm

custom90

Member Since: 21 Jan 2010
Location: South West, England.
Posts: 19578

See what the battery voltage sits at, at rest. How old is it?

As it isn’t putting up a DTC, I think it makes sense to look at things that don’t crest one.
I believe the glow plugs do flag a DTC if they do fail.

Injector pressures, may be worth looking at to see if those are normal.

Is there any possibility of fuel contamination? Diesel$ Live$ Matter. ⛽️🛢️👨‍🔧🧰⚙️ RED, WHITE & BOOST! 🇬🇧

10th Jan 2024 8:09pm

Ianh

Member Since: 17 Sep 2018
Location: Essex
Posts: 1765

When you replaced the VCV was it with a bona fide genuine Denso VCV ? I ask as aftermarket ones have proved to be ineffective and there are a lot of fake Denso ones out there, even from companies you would believe are reputable.

Bell auto services have a couple in stock at present and I would trust them to supply gen Denso ones.

If getting a new battery, you won’t get better than a Varta LED95.

10th Jan 2024 8:34pm

DuncanS

Member Since: 07 Dec 2013
Location: Cumbria
Posts: 295

Yes genuine Denso I believe (definitely a denso box that it came out of anyway from allmakes)

There's a possibility of dodgy fuel I guess, but it runs absolutely fine once it's started, so I'm leaning towards air potentially, but can't see how air would be getting in without seeing either a fuel leak or bad running which is whats making me scratch my head a bit.

I'm assuming that an issue on the low pressure side wouldn't manifest in this due to the HP pump not leaking back and thus maintaining pressure? North Cumbria Search and Rescue - Team Leader

10th Jan 2024 8:41pm

custom90

Member Since: 21 Jan 2010
Location: South West, England.
Posts: 19578

I got my VCV from PF Jones, been perfect with mine, but, people seem to have variable results.

Just out of interest is the fuel filter a genuine one?
I believe there is a water drain on there, but I have heard of people having issues with non genuine fuel filters.
Might be a bit far fetched, but you never know?

I wouldn’t discount the battery though, depends on what condition, age and voltage it’s sitting at, at rest is normally a good indicator.

Is there any fuel weeping at connectors near the fuel pump, or fuel cooler? Diesel$ Live$ Matter. ⛽️🛢️👨‍🔧🧰⚙️ RED, WHITE & BOOST! 🇬🇧

10th Jan 2024 9:02pm

bear100

Member Since: 22 Mar 2010
Location: South Wales
Posts: 1867

I’ve had a few VCV’s now and all came in a Denso box so you would assume it’s genuine but sadly not.
There should be a G at the end of the part number which indicates it’s a genuine unit, there’s a good thread on here about it. Touch wood it’s been great since fitted, had one fail out of the box before now 2016 Range Rover Autobiography 4.4 TDV8
2010 110 XS Utility 2.4TDCI
2010 Range Rover Sport TDV8 (gone)
2007 Discovery HSE TDV6 (gone)
1993 110 csw 200 tdi (gone)
1994 90 HT 300 tdi (gone)
1994 discovery 300tdi (gone)
90 hybrid 3.5 v8 (gone)
Range rover bobtail 3.5 v8 (gone)

10th Jan 2024 10:26pm

andy63

Member Since: 30 Jun 2023
Location: north east
Posts: 239

2014 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 CSW Aintree Green

Hi.. I'm new to defenders so forgive if I'm causing confusion.. You say you suspect fuel pressure as been an issue.. The 2.4tdci uses a valve on the fuel rail to control pressure.. Has that been checked..

11th Jan 2024 9:58am

blackwolf

Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 16879

2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Stornoway Grey

andy63 wrote:
... The 2.4tdci uses a valve on the fuel rail to control pressure ...

This is not strictly true. The 2.4 uses the VCV in the fuel pump to control the rail pressure (which it does by regulating the flow from the LP stage to the HP stage of the pump). The fuel rail has a sensor at the front (radiator) end to allow the ECM to know the instantaneous fuel rail pressure, and a pressure relief valve (PRV), in effect a safety valve, at the rear (bulkhead) end so that a total failure of the VCV or control circuit will not lead to an uncontrolled discharge of fuel under pressure. The PRV if activated allows the fuel to bleed back to the tank. The PRV does not strictly control the rail pressure, it does however limit the maximum pressure to which the rail can be subjected.

The PRV is, according to the WSM, a non-resettable valve, so in theory if it has popped you will only ever get very low fuel rail pressures and it is unlikely that the engine will run, and there should also be DTCs identifying fuel rail pressure problems. Apocryphal reports however suggest that it is not entirely unknown for the PRF to leak and cause pressure loss problems without causing a total loss of pressure, so it is worth bearing it in mind as a possible problem.

It is also worth noting that neither Land-Rover nor Ford supply the PRV as a spare part separate from the fuel rail itself, and require you to replace the whole fuel rail assembly. The PRV is available aftermarket, but is it very, very tight in the fuel rail so replacing it can be a problem.

Finally it is worth remembering that the fuel system on any modern common-rail diesel engine runs as extremely high pressures so you should be careful when working on any part of the fuel system, and especially when checking for leaks. High pressure subcutaneous injection of diesel fuel from leaking systems has cause loss of limbs and even loss of life, so don't take risks.

11th Jan 2024 11:41am

andy63

Member Since: 30 Jun 2023
Location: north east
Posts: 239

Thanks for that.. 👍
As I said I'm new to this and just remembered that I had read there was a difference between the two engines and didn't recall anyone mentioning that valve as been a possible issue

11th Jan 2024 12:14pm

custom90

Member Since: 21 Jan 2010
Location: South West, England.
Posts: 19578

Has anyone had the PRV go?
It nearly always seems to the VCV, faulty injectors seems to be identified more by live pressure.

Which electronic systems can be used to view live injector pressures? Diesel$ Live$ Matter. ⛽️🛢️👨‍🔧🧰⚙️ RED, WHITE & BOOST! 🇬🇧

11th Jan 2024 6:07pm

andy63

Member Since: 30 Jun 2023
Location: north east
Posts: 239

Given that the injector pressure is the rail pressure, I use the torque app to watch rail pressure among other data..
Mine is a 2.2tdci..and at tickover the pressure is around 3400psi and that will rise depending on driving conditions and demand to 23000psi or slightly more..

11th Jan 2024 6:27pm

DuncanS

Member Since: 07 Dec 2013
Location: Cumbria
Posts: 295

I'll get out this weekend and redo a diagnostic run on crank on mine. I use Forscan for doing our SAR 2.4 Transit, and conveniently it also works a treat on the 2.4 in the Landy and will let me log the pressures on the rail.

The PRV was one thought in my mind that might be at fault, but couldn't ever find a part number for it. Does anyone have a link to the correct part? I'm hoping it's sensor related rather than pump, for the sake of my wallet! North Cumbria Search and Rescue - Team Leader

11th Jan 2024 9:47pm

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