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Jensen



Member Since: 05 Jan 2013
Location: Poitou Charentes-France
Posts: 20

France 
Defender 2.4 Puma TDCI New engine advice !
Hi

My lads 2007 Defender 2.4 tdci engine with 300K km's is dead ! He got oil pressure warning light , towed him home and dropped the sump to find the oil pump pick up filter blocked full of crap . Cleaned, new pump and sump but the damage has already been done makes a right racket from the top end.

Want advice for a new engine please ?

Ford transit 2.4 tdci engines are a lot cheaper than the Defender obviously, don't want to take the risk with second hand ! Absolutely mind blowing choice out there !There are so many supposedly refurbished engines,second hand engines, new engines which are completely naked etc .

Any help much appreciated please !
Post #1008029 18th Sep 2023 10:29am
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MK



Member Since: 28 Aug 2008
Location: Santiago
Posts: 2307

Chile 2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 SW Chawton White
You can get a new stripped engine. Basically a Ford engine with a Defender oil sump. Puma 110" SW

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Earth first. Other planets later
Post #1008051 18th Sep 2023 3:40pm
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Dinnu



Member Since: 24 Dec 2019
Location: Lija
Posts: 3247

Malta 2012 Defender 90 Puma 2.2 CSW Santorini Black
2.4s are harder to get new. Its a shame for a vehicle that is 16 years old.

Not considered getting a full assembled head, and perhaps service the bottom end? 1988 90 Hard Top, 19J Diesel Turbo, Shire Blue - Restoration ongoing
2012 90 CSW, 2.2TDCI, Santorini Black
Post #1008052 18th Sep 2023 3:52pm
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Jensen



Member Since: 05 Jan 2013
Location: Poitou Charentes-France
Posts: 20

France 
MK wrote:
You can get a new stripped engine. Basically a Ford engine with a Defender oil sump.


Yes we have ! Spent all day on the phone ! New stripped down are approx £5K and you don’t even get a timing chain Sad
Post #1008063 18th Sep 2023 4:35pm
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Jensen



Member Since: 05 Jan 2013
Location: Poitou Charentes-France
Posts: 20

France 
Dinnu wrote:
2.4s are harder to get new. Its a shame for a vehicle that is 16 years old.

Not considered getting a full assembled head, and perhaps service the bottom end?


Not really! Thought getting a new engine would be a better investment.

Anybody know why they get so full of carbon / crap ? The sump was like an ash pan on a wood burner Smile
Post #1008065 18th Sep 2023 4:39pm
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MK



Member Since: 28 Aug 2008
Location: Santiago
Posts: 2307

Chile 2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 SW Chawton White
How often did you change the oil and what oil? Puma 110" SW

.............................................................
Earth first. Other planets later
Post #1008066 18th Sep 2023 4:46pm
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Ianh



Member Since: 17 Sep 2018
Location: Essex
Posts: 1846

United Kingdom 
Jensen wrote:


Anybody know why they get so full of carbon / crap ? The sump was like an ash pan on a wood burner Smile


It’s a combination of the EGR gases and breather oil mist being combined and fed into the inlet manifold.

Allegedly good for emissions but not good for the engine.

That’s why some blank and map out the EGR and fit a Provent catch can.
Post #1008067 18th Sep 2023 4:47pm
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Dinnu



Member Since: 24 Dec 2019
Location: Lija
Posts: 3247

Malta 2012 Defender 90 Puma 2.2 CSW Santorini Black
The EGR and breather would gunk up the inlet manifold, but should not create the problem / issue with the oil in the sump as described in the OP. I would say low grade engine oil that degraded / carbonized too quickly. 1988 90 Hard Top, 19J Diesel Turbo, Shire Blue - Restoration ongoing
2012 90 CSW, 2.2TDCI, Santorini Black
Post #1008069 18th Sep 2023 5:12pm
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Jensen



Member Since: 05 Jan 2013
Location: Poitou Charentes-France
Posts: 20

France 
MK wrote:
How often did you change the oil and what oil?


Good quality 05w/30 every 6k or before 12 months for the last 5 years ( 40k Km’s) but obviously don’t know for the 260 k Km’s with previous owners ?
Post #1008077 18th Sep 2023 5:58pm
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blackwolf



Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 17010

United Kingdom 2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Stornoway Grey
Dinnu wrote:
2.4s are harder to get new. Its a shame for a vehicle that is 16 years old.


Particularly surprising when you consider the number of different vehicles which have used the Ford 2.4 Duratorq engine. It's bizarre, and probably symptomatic of the throw-away society in which we now live.
Post #1008079 18th Sep 2023 6:04pm
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hornet



Member Since: 04 Jan 2010
Location: Western Europe
Posts: 344

Dinnu wrote:
The EGR and breather would gunk up the inlet manifold, but should not create the problem / issue with the oil in the sump as described in the OP. I would say low grade engine oil that degraded / carbonized too quickly.


This is not quite correct, there is always a bypass past the piston rings; Ianh nails the problem.
Post #1008158 19th Sep 2023 3:25pm
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Dinnu



Member Since: 24 Dec 2019
Location: Lija
Posts: 3247

Malta 2012 Defender 90 Puma 2.2 CSW Santorini Black
Thinking about it, maybe you have a point there. I always thought most oil contamination occurs during the power stroke. But a diesel should be constant pressure, although unsure if that still holds with modern diesel cycles with pre, main and post injections.

My old 19J had huge cracks in all 4 pistons, with huge back pressure that used to lift the filler cap off the rocker cover, and ran like that probably most of its life, oil was regularly changed though, and was always so black, but when engine was stripped, there was minimal sludge, and no carbonization. No egr on that lump. 1988 90 Hard Top, 19J Diesel Turbo, Shire Blue - Restoration ongoing
2012 90 CSW, 2.2TDCI, Santorini Black
Post #1008162 19th Sep 2023 4:03pm
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andy63



Member Since: 30 Jun 2023
Location: north east
Posts: 325

United Kingdom 2014 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 CSW Aintree Green
I can't see that the exhaust gas recirculation would have any effect on what is going on in the sump..if the blow past the piston rings is causing a carbon build up in the sump then what or how is that effected by the exhaust gas recirculation ..
some engines , and notably some transits suffered from carbon build up in the inlet manifold which was attributed to the egr...I can remember doing a mark7 2.4 engine and cleaning the inlet ports.
the egr valve was blanked and the function had to be deleted from the ecu, because on that engine I think it was the manifold absolute pressure sensor gave feedback on the operation of the egr valve, so you couldn't just blank it


Click image to enlarge
Post #1008163 19th Sep 2023 4:08pm
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Jensen



Member Since: 05 Jan 2013
Location: Poitou Charentes-France
Posts: 20

France 
Well ! All I can say is that I’ve dropped a few sumps in my life notably every single TD5 I have bought ( about 6 ) to check that the bolt on the oil pump is tight and have never seen as much crap as I have just seen in the bottom of this 2.4 tdci which was obviously the cause of this engine failure!
Post #1008165 19th Sep 2023 4:34pm
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MK



Member Since: 28 Aug 2008
Location: Santiago
Posts: 2307

Chile 2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 SW Chawton White
Do you have a picture? Puma 110" SW

.............................................................
Earth first. Other planets later
Post #1008167 19th Sep 2023 4:37pm
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