 | Home > General & Technical (L663) > New defender engine choice |
 
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| rossy Member Since: 29 Nov 2010 Location: Co. Roscommon Posts: 1296   
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oh well we'll see what happens I suppose
Interestingly last weeks Autocar 'revealed' that the all new Defender won't be on sale until 2016 because Tata in their quest to steal market share in countries where Toyota and Nissan would be the default choice have ramped up the R+D investment big time and felt that the D3 chassis would be too heavy. If there's any truth to this it would mean that there's a few years left in the old dog yet and an engine revamp might make sense. A friend of mine who is a senior engineer at Ford admitted that the 2.4 Puma was in retrospect a poor choice as it was plagued with technical issues that had the experts scratching their heads (the 1.8 TDCI had similar problems and it was all hush hush apparently) Its all speculation but with a 110 being only 200kg heavier than a Freelander would it just be possible that the 2.2 with a bit of fettling might make the grade ? I'm only guessing |
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2nd May 2011 12:46pm |
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| Landie Boy Member Since: 15 Jan 2011 Location: Essex Posts: 431  
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It copes with the Freelander which does not have a low box.. so i'm guessing with a low box for offroad it would make the grade Jack |
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2nd May 2011 1:35pm |
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| Landie Boy Member Since: 15 Jan 2011 Location: Essex Posts: 431
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Just had a look on the LR website,
The Freelander engine has more Torque and HP TD4 Manual Maximum power - 150hp Maximum Torque - 420Nm Combined mpg - 45.6 Vs Current TDCI engine Maximum power - 122hp Maximum Torque - 360Nm Combined mpg - 28.3 Jack |
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2nd May 2011 1:45pm |
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| spudfan Member Since: 10 Sep 2007 Location: Co Donegal Posts: 4485
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I am happy the way the tdci engine performs in the Puma. It is lovely to drive, quiet and responsive. The killer is the emissions leading to extortionate roadtax and purchase price here.
Whether the Freelander 2.2 engine can just be slotted in and continue to give the same emissions figures in the Defender as in the Freelander is open to debate. The Defender is a lot more boxy than a Freelander and will have more wind resistance aswell. Also the Defender is lower geared so these factors will ensure that the fuel consumption is higher than the Freelander. I had a 90 turbo diesel for 6 years and loved it. This engine was criticised from it's inception with tales that it would self destruct. I found it a nice unit and with regular servicing gave no bother. What is of interest here is the figures for the turbo diesel. They were 85 bhp(63.4KW) @4000rpm and 150.2 lbf.ft@1800 rpm. These are well down on the Puma let alone the Freelander 2.2 unit. Looking at it from this angle the Freelander unit is more than up to the job.These days electronics can be used to make engines give a lot more power than of years gone by, but would a Defender used for towing etc not put a lot more stress on an engine than a Freelander?. Why they would want to change the engine is another matter. Would the drive train etc be up the the extra power?From a marketing point of view it might not be a great selling point saying that you have fitted a smaller engine. Then again if emissions are a barrier to sales in Europe due to high tax rates for emissions it just might be the way to go. I was resigned to having to pay € 50000 or so for a new one here in Ireland plus € 2100 yearly for a tax disc but thanks to CR who brought to all of our attention the new EU N1 classification and how it relates to buying a Defender in Ireland(which will knock about 10k off the purchase price here) and your insider information (which will bring the road tax down to € 600 at most) my days in a Mickeymouseubishi Outlander are numbered Regarding the above, you will have a hard job getting anything classified as commercial here, even a hard top, unless you have a vat number or a herd number. 1982 88" 2.25 diesel 1992 110 200tdi csw -Zikali 2008 110 2.4 tdci csw-Zulu 2011 110 2.4 tdci csw-Masai |
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2nd May 2011 2:44pm |
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| rossy Member Since: 29 Nov 2010 Location: Co. Roscommon Posts: 1296
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from what I've read elsewhere on this site power and torque figures aren't the full story as there are plenty of small capacity diesels with 180 +bhp and over 300lbs torque but would be too fragile for a Defender. The 2.4 Puma may be comparatively short of grunt but it has heavy duty internal components designed for high stress usage (eg in a transit). Having said that PSA are renowned for their robust diesels (the 2.2 is a Ford/peugeot creation I think) so here's hoping !
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2nd May 2011 3:01pm |
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| rossy Member Since: 29 Nov 2010 Location: Co. Roscommon Posts: 1296
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oh er Spudfan how did a bit of my post end up at the tail end of yours ?!
Anyway its a lovely day so I'm going back outside to finish the patio ! |
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2nd May 2011 3:15pm |
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| spudfan Member Since: 10 Sep 2007 Location: Co Donegal Posts: 4485
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I was trying to be fancy and quote something but I think I had better leave that to the younger crowd here as I always mess it up! Nice day for patio work, nicer day just watching someone do the patio work! 1982 88" 2.25 diesel
1992 110 200tdi csw -Zikali 2008 110 2.4 tdci csw-Zulu 2011 110 2.4 tdci csw-Masai |
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2nd May 2011 4:44pm |
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| Lorryman100 Member Since: 01 Oct 2010 Location: Here Posts: 2686 |
Bah... you are all thinking small scale.... how about a 1000bhp jet powered hybrid?
Yes it exists....Jaguar are incorporating it into a limited edition supercar, the C-X75 of which 250 will be built....anybody fancy one at £700k? http://www.autocar.co.uk/News/NewsArticle/AllCars/256876/ |
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10th May 2011 8:31pm |
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| cinstone Member Since: 29 Nov 2010 Location: Stourbridge Posts: 375  
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Don't forget, it's not all about power and torque, it's where it puts it too, i.e, an engine might have 200 bhp & 500ftlbs of torque, but at 10000rpm, which wouldn't be much use in our applications, low down, especially for the torque, is where we want it. Now, what rev's does the 2.2 put out its peak torque?
Chris. |
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14th May 2011 12:01pm |
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| spudfan Member Since: 10 Sep 2007 Location: Co Donegal Posts: 4485
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Maximum torque 420 Nm/1,750 RPM.
Maximum power 110Kw (150 hp)/4,000rpm 1982 88" 2.25 diesel 1992 110 200tdi csw -Zikali 2008 110 2.4 tdci csw-Zulu 2011 110 2.4 tdci csw-Masai |
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14th May 2011 12:50pm |
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| NinetyTD4 Member Since: 22 Apr 2011 Location: North Posts: 397  
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Just to keep the dice rolling - as Ford is changing all Transit to Euro 5 on 2.2l Diesel engines with 100, 125, 135 and 155HP based on a modified ZSD422 and also the AWD will get the 125HP Puma modified, it is very likely the Defender will first get the same 125HP Puma. I doubt and hope not New Defender will get the PSA Diesel, as this is not heavy duty but boulevard style.
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16th May 2011 7:30pm |
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| mse Member Since: 06 Apr 2008 Location: UK Posts: 5024 
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The 2.2 is already in the transit as a top spec engine - its in moms new well 1yr old - campervan Mike
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17th May 2011 7:32am |
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| JSG Member Since: 12 Jul 2007 Location: Berkshire Posts: 2412 
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I heard that the Defender will get the 2.2 Transit lump later this year - for the 2012 model I guess. John
http://www.hampshire4x4response.co.uk 2011 Tdci 110 CSW XS |
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17th May 2011 11:44am |
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| Grizzly110 Member Since: 27 Jul 2010 Location: Kent Posts: 9
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My Son was at there training center last week, he was also told that they will be fitting the 2.2 diesel in 2012. The engine has already been re-engineered from transverse to longitudinal fitment for the Jaguar XF. "One Life Get One"
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17th May 2011 6:23pm |
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