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What puddle?



Member Since: 25 Oct 2013
Location: Reading
Posts: 472

United Kingdom 1998 Defender 90 V8 Petrol 50th Auto Atlantis Blue

Land Rover
We aim to disappoint

Post #602577 17th Feb 2017 1:08pm
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L90Andy



Member Since: 29 May 2014
Location: Stratford-Upon-Avon
Posts: 231

United Kingdom 2016 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 USW Scotia Grey

That's a tad harsh seeing that Land Rover never actually committed to anything! This whole thing is hearsay and we know dealers are a law unto themselves as we b!tch about them enough the rest of the time.. My Defender: http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic39625.html

Post #602583 17th Feb 2017 1:28pm
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What puddle?



Member Since: 25 Oct 2013
Location: Reading
Posts: 472

United Kingdom 1998 Defender 90 V8 Petrol 50th Auto Atlantis Blue

Andy...it's on the 2018 Defender section. Geddit? Hint: it ain't going to be here in 2018...or the year after. Might even be beaten by the Ineos version!

My disappointment is such that it 'may' even put me off buying one...if it ever arrives. You only have to read my posts in the past to see just how annoyed I am with Land Rover that they STILL haven't even shown a picture of it, let alone given any real details. Their PR section reads these posts - don't think they don't. They could have come on here and squashed the idea of any announcement. I know they read these websites because I had a Defender website myself, and LR emailed me to ask me if I wanted to be on a forum to see the new Defender. Guess when that was.........2009!

Post #602594 17th Feb 2017 2:04pm
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L90Andy



Member Since: 29 May 2014
Location: Stratford-Upon-Avon
Posts: 231

United Kingdom 2016 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 USW Scotia Grey

I meant they themselves never committed to making an announcement this week - it was only dealer rumour. My Defender: http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic39625.html

Post #602603 17th Feb 2017 3:13pm
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22900013A



Member Since: 23 Dec 2010
Location: Oxfordshire
Posts: 2284

United Kingdom 2011 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 USW Keswick Green

Pure speculation I know, and nothing to back it up, but I was on a job the other day and the guy was saying his son worked for JLR and said their would not be any kind of utility vehicle from them in the future, it would be a premium station wagon type of vehicle.

Obviously I have nothing to back this up but it does fit with my thinking...maybe we will see a vehicle called a Defender but I would forget about the military, farmers or public utilities buying them. 2011 110 USW
1973 Series III 1-Ton Cherrypicker
1973 Series III 1-Ton
1969 IIA 1-Ton
1966 IIA 88"

Post #602789 18th Feb 2017 12:55pm
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spudfan



Member Since: 10 Sep 2007
Location: Co Donegal
Posts: 2211

Ireland 

22900013A wrote
"Pure speculation I know, and nothing to back it up, but I was on a job the other day and the guy was saying his son worked for JLR and said their would not be any kind of utility vehicle from them in the future, it would be a premium station wagon type of vehicle.

Obviously I have nothing to back this up but it does fit with my thinking...maybe we will see a vehicle called a Defender but I would forget about the military, farmers or public utilities buying them"

I agree with this. If there were to be a utility type vehicle to come, Land Rover would be talking to the relevant parties to find out what they wanted and how they could accommodate them. Also if such a vehicle were coming the utility users would have been given a definite timeline so they could seamlessly go from the outgoing model to the new one, instead of shopping elsewhere. I don't think anyone exits a market and expects to be able to re enter it unscathed. The new model usually follows on the demise of the old. Customers who have gone elsewhere, buy vehicles or lease them over a number of years so they will not be holding fire until the new vehicle arrives. Land Rover have obviously decided to sell to a different group of buyers. They have targeted the consumer who expects a new model on a five yearly basis which is a very profitable way to go. Also utility variants don't usually sell with many expensive optional extras.
The only way the outgoing Defender features in Land Rover's thinking is to how they can exploit it in the sales brochure for the new model. Heritage and all of that etc.... 1982 88" 2.25 diesel
1992 110 200tdi csw -Zikali
2008 110 2.4 tdci csw-Zulu
2011 110 2.4 tdci csw-Masai

Post #602799 18th Feb 2017 1:32pm
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What puddle?



Member Since: 25 Oct 2013
Location: Reading
Posts: 472

United Kingdom 1998 Defender 90 V8 Petrol 50th Auto Atlantis Blue

Then those that seek a utility vehicle should look to Ineos.

Those, like me, (who wanted the DC100) may be catered for. But it still begs the question: why didn't they release the DC100 then? I would rather think that being as they didn't market the DC100, they WILL be producing a utility vehicle variant of the new Defender - one that could be hosed out. As I say, if they don't, then they might just as well have marketed the DC100.

LR have never made any sense since building the brilliant original Range Rover. They went downhill after that, and let the Japanese come in and take all their sales. So maybe all what I say above will be wrong. I'll never understand a car company that didn't make a small 4x4, dropped the ever-cost-increasing Freelander, endlessly competes with itself, and has failed to produce a new Defender - dropping the old one before the new one is out. I'll admit that the Evoque was inspired-thinking, and the Disco 3 and 4. But I can just never forgive them for taking this long...and we're still at least two years off! It's a joke.

Post #602846 18th Feb 2017 5:11pm
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Brucemknx



Member Since: 17 Nov 2013
Location: Kununurra
Posts: 11

Australia 1996 Defender 110 300 Tdi SW Caledonian Blue

So they are releasing another Range Rover.
http://www.caradvice.com.au/524930/range-r...confirmed/

Is this all Gerry knows how to draw?

Post #603810 22nd Feb 2017 1:45am
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ericvv



Member Since: 02 Jun 2011
Location: Near the Jet d'Eau
Posts: 4403

Switzerland 2009 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 SVX Station Wagon Santorini Black

Brucemknx wrote:
Is this all Gerry knows how to draw?

Yes. Rolling Eyes

But we have to admit that Gerry's great innovative design with the Velar are its double rear lights. Very different from the single rear lights of both the Eewok and the Sport. Idea
One thing is for sure, such a Velar is going to be another high volume seller to the female buyer here in this town. Laughing
Eric You never actually own a Defender. You merely look after it for the next generation.
http://youtu.be/yVRlSsJwD0o
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_GtzTT9Pdl0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABqKPz28e6A
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLZ49Jce_n0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XvAsz_ilQYU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6K7HmDPhG3I
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8tMHiX9lSw
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dxwjPuHIV7I
https://vimeo.com/201482507

Post #603816 22nd Feb 2017 4:51am
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nidge n



Member Since: 04 Feb 2012
Location: Cheshire
Posts: 559

2012 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 XS CSW Orkney Grey

well the design language discussed in this article is much more worrying. It looks like Gerry is ensuring that the defender is going the way of all the other non-descript LR products. Lets hope Ineos make their product.

http://www.drive.com.au/motor-news/land-ro...uj0lz.html

Post #603946 22nd Feb 2017 5:06pm
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Freypal



Member Since: 23 Sep 2013
Location: West Midlands
Posts: 219

United Kingdom 2006 Defender 90 Td5 Silver LE Zambezi Silver

The more I read, the more I think I'm done with LR as a brand and this really saddens me. There is nothing in the current range for me. The disco has been pushed up market out of reach, the evoque isn't practical and the disco sport does nothing for me to justify its price tag.

The new Defender was the last model I had any hope for and the more I read from Gerry the more I believe it won't be for me. I recently had to get rid of my 90 due to the arrival of our first child and needing something bigger. I was looking to buy new and have ended up going with Volvo as for the above reasons I couldn't justify a disco sport and the 110 has ended. My plan was always to return for the new Defender but if it ends up as another overpriced, over styled, lifestyle vehicle I won't bother.

Very sad. I'll keep hold of my classic LRs.

Post #604000 22nd Feb 2017 8:15pm
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spudfan



Member Since: 10 Sep 2007
Location: Co Donegal
Posts: 2211

Ireland 

I used to use a maindealer for servicing on my Pumas. I used to travel a long way to them because they were very good at what they did and were reasonably priced. Sadly they have ceased being a Land Rover dealership. From what I've "heard" they were not prepared to invest in the existing premises to bring it up to the current "standards" expected by Land Rover.
It was modern, clean and friendly but it seems that the powers that be didn't think it reflected the modern sophisticated luxurious showroom that they want to exhibit their new vehicles in.
It didn't matter that the work was carried out well or that they didn't charge an arm or a leg for it. This is because they ran a good and friendly service. To go the way of Land Rover would have ment huge investment in the existing premises or more likely the development of a new operation on a green field site to current "Land Rover expectations", with the huge financial outlay being recouped from the customer.
I think we can see the direction Land Rover is going. No doubt it will be profitable because the customers who will be subsidising it are the new Land Rover breed who can afford the vehicles. Me, I don't like the new vehicles which doesn't bother me as I can't afford them.
No doubt if I were a share holder in the company I'd be praising Mr McGovern to the heavens. Well I'm not and I don't.
It's not just the vehicles that are changing.... 1982 88" 2.25 diesel
1992 110 200tdi csw -Zikali
2008 110 2.4 tdci csw-Zulu
2011 110 2.4 tdci csw-Masai

Post #604071 22nd Feb 2017 11:04pm
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Pickles



Member Since: 26 May 2013
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 2766

Australia 2013 Defender 90 Puma 2.2 CSW Keswick Green

Same thing's been happening in Aussie for several years.
Our local "family owned" Holden Dealership had been on the same premises for probably 50 years,...only a small Dealership, but a steady loyal customer base, the locals would get the best price they could elsewhhere then come to the dealership who would, in most cases be able to beat it or come close, so the deal would be done. EXCELLENT service dept, maybe not the most modern (in appearance), but with all the latest tuning "gear" & a very dedicated & conscientious staff.
BUT, the Dealership was not big enough to go & pay for the "Big Corporate" image, so,..the premises is now a tyre depot/repair shop.
I used to love going there, Pickles.

Post #604082 23rd Feb 2017 2:55am
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LR90XS2011



Member Since: 05 Apr 2011
Location: bickenhill
Posts: 2107

United Kingdom 2011 Defender 90 Puma 2.4 XS CSW Galway Green

well I liked the DC100 and if it was priced lower than £25k would probably have brought one at some point to replace the daily.

If we really all think that the replacement when / if it comes isn't for us I think that isn't so bad because

1/ our defenders will remain low depreciation
2/ they will remain infinitely repairable and modifiable
3/ we can just keep them forever and keep repairing them when they need repairing
4/ if we want another one we can just buy one second hand an get it rebuilt into what we want it to be DEFENDER 90 TDCI XS,

I hope everyone is well and your land rovers make you happy

Post #604086 23rd Feb 2017 5:35am
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ericvv



Member Since: 02 Jun 2011
Location: Near the Jet d'Eau
Posts: 4403

Switzerland 2009 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 SVX Station Wagon Santorini Black

spudfan wrote:
No doubt if I were a share holder in the company I'd be praising Mr McGovern to the heavens. It's not just the vehicles that are changing....

Seems it is not all roses with JLR... Their marketing expenses are rising too fast relative to their profit margin, and overall volume apparently remains below target too.

Below was reported 10 days ago in the press here. Highlights of the article and its translation:

Le bénéfice de Tata Motors plonge de 96%
Le premier constructeur automobile indien a souffert de la faiblesse des ventes de sa filiale Jaguar Land Rover et de la démonétisation.
La filiale Jaguar Land Rover a vu ses «ventes en volume diminuer et sa gamme de produits faiblir» en termes de marge bénéficiaire, pour «des dépenses de marketing globalement en hausse», a aussi expliqué la société dans un communiqué.

Tata Motors earnings dropped 96%
The first Indian automaker suffered from the weak sales of its subsidiary Jaguar Land Rover and the (India) demonetization.
The Jaguar Land Rover subsidiary saw its "volume sales decline and its product range weakening" in terms of profit margin, for "overall marketing expenses increasing," the company said in a statement

Link to full article
http://www.tdg.ch/economie/entreprises/ben...y/26040737

Well, the immediate effect on me probably will be that JLR in order to sanitize their marketing budget are not going to serve blinis with black caviar and smetana anymore in their VIP lounge at the coming Geneva motor show. Maybe only little sandwiches with salami this year. Rolling Eyes
Now that I come to think of it, it is almost show time, and I still did not receive from my dealer the mail with the annual offer to order two free motor show entry tickets. Would things be that bad for them to cancel this annual offer? Shocked
Eric You never actually own a Defender. You merely look after it for the next generation.
http://youtu.be/yVRlSsJwD0o
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_GtzTT9Pdl0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABqKPz28e6A
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLZ49Jce_n0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XvAsz_ilQYU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6K7HmDPhG3I
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8tMHiX9lSw
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dxwjPuHIV7I
https://vimeo.com/201482507

Post #604088 23rd Feb 2017 5:38am
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