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v8bobber

Member Since: 26 Aug 2012
Location: pembrokeshire
Posts: 437

2008 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Java Black

Puma power loss - unusual squeal from turbo

Hi All,

I had to do a longish journey in my 2008 Puma 110 the other night and at about 75 miles into the 120 mile journey I had a distinct power loss.

It was motorway stuff and because I was picking my Dad up from hospital and it was Christmas eve I was pushing on a bit at maybe 75 or so for extended periods. Anyway, the power dropped off and instead of being able to keep the easy 70 or so it was a job to keep more than 50-55 and 6th gear was a waste of time.

In the end I pulled over and a quick stop and restart of the engine restored the power although I could swear that the power delivery wasn't very linear anymore.

One thing I had noticed recently is that there was a slight squealing noise from under the bonnet the last couple of weeks and I had linked this to the the EGR cleaning process as I could hear it when the engine was turned off and lasts about 3-5 seconds but upon further investigation today it appears to be coming from the area of the turbo, and perhaps more specifically the black box on the side of the turbo itself.

From what I can work out, this is a variable geometry turbo and as such there is no wastegate and this black box must be some kind of modulator to control the vanes on the turbo?

Has anyone come across this before, or have any idea what the problem might be?

Regards

Dave

26th Dec 2015 5:02pm

Supacat

Member Since: 16 Oct 2012
Location: West Yorkshire
Posts: 11018

2013 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 XS DCPU Keswick Green

Does the second post here help?

http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic34449.html?highlight=actuator

26th Dec 2015 5:32pm

ickle

Member Since: 22 Jul 2010
Location: South Vendee
Posts: 1728

2008 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 CSW Alpine White

Didn't have the squeal but all the rest.

Intermittent at first (after fast / long trips) but gradually more and more.

New turbo fixed the fault.

26th Dec 2015 5:44pm

blackwolf

Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 16879

2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Stornoway Grey

First check the pipe from the turbo to the intercooler for splits, since this is a common problem and will cause exactly the symptoms you describe. On the 2.4 check in particular that the steering shaft where it enters the steering box isn't touching the underside of the air pipe. You probably won't be able to see this, you might be able to feel it, but unless you are 100% sure whip the pipe off to check. As I say it is a common problem.

It is unlikely that an actuator fault will cause a squealing noise, but with the engine stopped the actuator lever should park in mid position. If it is fully up it is likely that you have a chafing problem in the harness from the ECU to the actuator. You will also have virtually no power at all!

26th Dec 2015 7:07pm

v8bobber

Member Since: 26 Aug 2012
Location: pembrokeshire
Posts: 437

Thanks for that, will have a look tomorrow if I get chance.

I wouldn't have thought that a hole in the pipe would be causing this as the power was restored with a turn off / restart

Since I posted this I have plugged in the nanocom and got the following fault codes....

P0234 Turbo overboost condition (Intermittent)

P1103 Mass air flow sensor in range but higher than expected (intermittent)

P0404 EGR control circuit / performance (Not tested DTC, permanent)

P0100 Mass or volume air flow circuit (Not tested DTC)

Not sure if this means anything to anyone

Dave

26th Dec 2015 9:44pm

blackwolf

Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 16879

What may well have happened was that a persisted fault condition (turbo overboost) was detected causing the ECU to put the engine in limp mode. Cycling the ignition would clear this and restore power - until the next time. It is exactly what happened when my intercooler pipe split!

Also consistent with your DTCs.

The good news if it is the pipe is that although a pipe isn't cheap it is cheaper than a turbo!

26th Dec 2015 10:20pm

v8bobber

Member Since: 26 Aug 2012
Location: pembrokeshire
Posts: 437

Right you are. I'll put it on my list of things to check.

Wouldn't explain the noise when the engine is turned off though but certainly worth a look

Thanks again

Dave

26th Dec 2015 10:52pm

ickle

Member Since: 22 Jul 2010
Location: South Vendee
Posts: 1728

When mine did it, I got out without switching off and got SWMBO to rev the engine whilst I watched the actuator for movement - it didn't move.

She switched it off, waited a couple of seconds, started again and it worked 100%. On this last trip back through France, we got to the point where it would fail, clutch in, ignition off, ignition on, clutch out & off we go again for between 1 & 120 miles,

I had IIRC similar fault codes to you, the biggest thing was a faulty EGR valve, stuck mechanically partially open so had black smoke issues under load (even with a shut egr map) & I think this choked the vv mechanism. I even put a couple of expensive cleaners through to no avail.

Before I found the above, I think I had changed every sensor, loom repair & hose going!

Good luck

27th Dec 2015 12:02am

Supacat

Member Since: 16 Oct 2012
Location: West Yorkshire
Posts: 11018

blackwolf wrote:
First check the pipe from the turbo to the intercooler for splits, since this is a common problem and will cause exactly the symptoms you describe. On the 2.4 check in particular that the steering shaft where it enters the steering box isn't touching the underside of the air pipe. You probably won't be able to see this, you might be able to feel it, but unless you are 100% sure whip the pipe off to check. As I say it is a common problem.

It is unlikely that an actuator fault will cause a squealing noise, but with the engine stopped the actuator lever should park in mid position. If it is fully up it is likely that you have a chafing problem in the harness from the ECU to the actuator. You will also have virtually no power at all!

Doesn't the OP have a Td5 not a 2.4 - others have said this has a vacuum operated actuator not electrical.

27th Dec 2015 11:58am

blackwolf

Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 16879

Well, the thread is titled "Puma power loss" and the OP refers to his "2008 Puma"!

27th Dec 2015 1:49pm

Supacat

Member Since: 16 Oct 2012
Location: West Yorkshire
Posts: 11018

My confusion - I looked as his icon, which is for another vehicle...

27th Dec 2015 7:05pm

blackwolf

Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 16879

Totally understandable, and I did exactly the same initially!

27th Dec 2015 8:26pm

v8bobber

Member Since: 26 Aug 2012
Location: pembrokeshire
Posts: 437

My apologies, now remedied.

When I set up the profile many moons ago I can't even remember putting the vehicle specifics in. Handy to know.

.....

Going on from what has been said then, is a new turbo the only true fix? I don't think the vehicle has travelled at such a speed for such a long distance and the powerloss occured after a particularly hard press of the throttle past a vehicle on the dual carriageway.

I'm wondering (and secretly hoping) that the actuator was at the end of its travel and as it was not used to being there simply became stuck.

If I had the nanocom plugged in as I was travelling when this problem occured, would this show up somewhere as an unusual value?

Dave

27th Dec 2015 10:31pm

blackwolf

Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 16879

1. Check with engine stopped to see if the turbo actuator appears to be mid position or at either limit of travel.

2. If mid, check the turbo to intercooler hose as advised above.

3. If actuator is at end of travel or if hose is perfect, disconnect actuator operating arm from linkage and check how free the linkage is to operate (the bit on the turbo, not the bit on the electronic actuator). It should be very free to move and "feel as though it is broken".

When you've done these things tell us what you find and we can advise what to do next.

It is possible to replace the actuator servo on its own if it is faulty, but they are pretty robust. LR will only sell you a complete turbo though.

27th Dec 2015 11:20pm

landy andy

Member Since: 15 Feb 2009
Location: Ware, Herts
Posts: 5422

2006 Defender 110 Td5 USW Zermatt Silver

I have a working actuator here if you need. I would also suggest that you check your turbo to manifold gasket, or do a search on the forum for info about this.

Andy

27th Dec 2015 11:37pm

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