 | Home > Off Topic > Scotland...in or out ? |
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| Jonno1968 Member Since: 24 Oct 2013 Location: Leicestershire Posts: 245   
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Why doesnt the rest of the uk get a say..it effects us too. Stay together and the majority of the Uk would agree because we know its important to remain in the union.
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8th Sep 2014 8:21pm |
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| Interlet Member Since: 10 Oct 2011 Location: Norwich Posts: 461 
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I've all but given up on the Scots. They keep getting told that there is no currency plan. We all know, in this day and age, money is key to everything. We do not live in mud huts and barter with neighbouring villages for marriage privileges to the oldest man's daughter. They have been told quite plainly, they can't have the pound, and yet they either don't believe it, or don't care.
The other big misconception that the Scots seem to have is that the government creates jobs. There is all this talk of giving the Scottish parliament "more job creating powers". They forgot that from 1945 until 1990 the biggest threat to the entire world was the concept of a system where the government creates jobs for people. It's called communism pure and simple. Jobs are created by people and private organisations, in order to live and make money, and pay tax in order for the government to operate. Jobs are not created by the government so that people pay tax to fund the government. The more so called "job creating powers" Scotland has, the less incentive there is for individuals to get off their backsides and make their own way in life. The reliance on the State is meant to be a matter of last resort, yet Scots see it as the solution for a person with no job. And as for trident, well not everyone shares my view. The way I see it, sadly, in this world, if you are a genuine nuclear power, you have a lot more international leverage than without. I believe we should keep it,so this is a situation where one constituent nation is forcing massive consequences onto the rest of the country, by forcing us to remove trident from Scottish waters within X years. As has been said, there is nowhere else for it to go, so we are basically forced into giving up our nuclear arsenal. For that very reason, I think we should have a say, because that aspect of the outcome affects us in a very far reaching way. 1998 110 300Tdi White Hard Top |
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8th Sep 2014 9:50pm |
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| Jonno1968 Member Since: 24 Oct 2013 Location: Leicestershire Posts: 245
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Absolutely well put.
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8th Sep 2014 9:53pm |
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| jomara Member Since: 26 Oct 2009 Location: Lanarkshire Posts: 1757  
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Pleas don't tar us all with the same brush Interlet!!! There's a lot of people who don't want the referendum to snuff out the glimmers of recovery we are seeing.
Also you paint Scotland as a country if scrounges but our unemployment figures per head of population are actually lower than most English & Welsh cities as testified by this list published in Jan http://thegeographist.wordpress.com/2014/0...ymentrate/ I agree that the rules about who gets a vote are less than ideal and it's even more of a joke when the SNP trot out the likes of Sean Connery who is now domiciled in the Bahamas to tell us how to vote. There are a lot of Scots who work abroad or even in England who have lost their right to vote because King Alex decided you need to be resident here!!! However on the other hand we have a whole raft of individuals who have arrived in the UK in the last few years from other European States who have no Scottish ancestry but have earned the right to vote by being here!! And don't start me on allowing 16 year olds to vote! I agree that the whole thing is madness and the moment that the politicians decided to exclude the rest of the UK from the decision on whether we should be granted independence or cast aside (depending on your view) they drove a wedge between our states!!! From your post above it looks like you'd quite happily be rid of Scotland and it's scrounging population!! Anyway rant over!!! We will need to see how it goes next week but at the moment I'm looking at a future in NZ if everything pans out as expected  2014 110 2.2TDCi XS Station wagon
1971 Bowler Tomcat 88 4.2 V8 Auto 2022 110 250D XS |
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8th Sep 2014 10:10pm |
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| Jonno1968 Member Since: 24 Oct 2013 Location: Leicestershire Posts: 245
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Some fair points but lets see what your unemployment figures look like if you go independent whe the likes of standard life etc etc etc etc pull out. None of the major businesses will stay and more will follow due to the policies of fish face. And as for being oit of the EU......god help scotland! Love you but it will be wrong.
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8th Sep 2014 10:17pm |
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| jomara Member Since: 26 Oct 2009 Location: Lanarkshire Posts: 1757
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Jonno you're preaching to the choir!!!
I agreed with a lot of Interlet's points but i feel that paint Scots as scrounges is wrong as it's an affliction the whole country suffers from! I have my own business and I'm  myself as on the 19th of September we could find ourselves at the beginning of the biggest financial depression that Scotland has ever experienced, it has taken Norway over a century to get themselves sorted out, have a read at this!!
http://www.scotsman.com/news/opinion/lette...-1-3438203 I don't want to leave the union but I'm afraid our future is in the hands on a lot of people without the knowledge required to make an educated decision! 2014 110 2.2TDCi XS Station wagon 1971 Bowler Tomcat 88 4.2 V8 Auto 2022 110 250D XS |
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8th Sep 2014 10:30pm |
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| Jonno1968 Member Since: 24 Oct 2013 Location: Leicestershire Posts: 245
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Not branding anyone as scroungers and never have. Thats never been on my logic...i think thats disruptive agression from ill informed folk...not me
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8th Sep 2014 10:34pm |
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| jomara Member Since: 26 Oct 2009 Location: Lanarkshire Posts: 1757
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No problems here Jonno
I find that a lot of people are tarring all Scots with the independence brush but I for one am against the financial hassles and hardships which will befall the country if this does go ahead!! One thing I will bet is that between now and next years election King Alex will step down and off into the sunset with his final salary pension leaving the rest of the country (and I mean the UK) to pick up the pieces and try and get the economy moving again!!!
There are a lot of issues which have not been touched on during the bluster such as: What's going to happen with the thousands of asylum seekers the government have stashed away in tower blocks in our major cities? Are the European migrant workers going to be sent home when we are excluded from the EU? How are we going to fill the jobs left vacant by the mass exodus of EU workers? How are we going to replace the tens of thousands of jobs lost when Trident and the UK are evicted from Scots soil? Where do we get the funding to build up our armed forces? And the list goes on and on and on...... 2014 110 2.2TDCi XS Station wagon 1971 Bowler Tomcat 88 4.2 V8 Auto 2022 110 250D XS |
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8th Sep 2014 10:48pm |
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| ericvv Member Since: 02 Jun 2011 Location: Near the Jet d'Eau Posts: 5816  
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If the vote is a Yea, some in England and Wales may be missing this, no?
 
 You never actually own a Defender. You merely look after it for the next generation.
http://youtu.be/yVRlSsJwD0o https://youtu.be/vmPr3oTHndg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_GtzTT9Pdl0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABqKPz28e6A https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLZ49Jce_n0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XvAsz_ilQYU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8tMHiX9lSw https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dxwjPuHIV7I https://vimeo.com/201482507 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSixqL0iyHw |
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9th Sep 2014 6:14am |
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| jomara Member Since: 26 Oct 2009 Location: Lanarkshire Posts: 1757
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2014 110 2.2TDCi XS Station wagon
1971 Bowler Tomcat 88 4.2 V8 Auto 2022 110 250D XS |
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9th Sep 2014 7:44am |
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| Interlet Member Since: 10 Oct 2011 Location: Norwich Posts: 461
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Scotland's employment figures are higher because they already have a substantially bigger public sector workforce for things like the NHS and social care. Scotland spends about 3-400 more pounds per person on health care than the rest of the UK. And for all the people who are in the public sector who complain that their pay hasn't increased enough in line with living costs, jump ship to a private company, the pay is way better! 1998 110 300Tdi White Hard Top
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9th Sep 2014 8:35am |
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| MartinK Member Since: 02 Mar 2011 Location: Silverdale (Lancashire/Cumbria Border) Posts: 2664 
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It's a real shame that "Politics" have got in the way, and this hasn't been a vote based on facts and numbers.
I like Jomara's angles. So much hasn't been talked about, and IMHO, the "NO" group have failed to ask the questions to bring these issues to the fore so that voters can make a valid decision. The Yes lot have taken a lot for granted, and the NO lot should have forced the debates. Fat Boy Salmond scares me...if he runs the country who knows what could happen. In the pub a couple of night ago, (South Queensferry, Scotland) we were discussing things like: Overseas Travel. Scenario: you get mugged or lose your passport (and is it Scottish or British?). Where's your Scottish Embassy? Ohh, there isn't one. Now what? All the road laws including MOT's, driving licenses, insurance, road tax, DVLA etc... What'll happen there then? It's a nightmare to unravel and implement, and who will pay for it all? My Brother's company have developed a plan for a "Yes" vote, and it includes ramping-up their Manchester Operation, and reducing their Dundee plant. If Yes, my employer will be moving a large number of jobs from Glasgow to Warrington, Newcastle & Sheffield - it may even affect my job. It's sooo scarey. I really hope it's a NO. Defender "Puma" 2.4 110 County Utility (possibly the last of the 2.4's) |
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9th Sep 2014 8:52am |
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| Interlet Member Since: 10 Oct 2011 Location: Norwich Posts: 461
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You ask some good questions, However, I still don't quite understand what you want from the NO camp. You say they need to ask questions. They are the side who want things to remain as they are. Given we already know what it will be like as is, there are not any questions they can ask. The questions need to, and have been put to Mr Salmond, but as we all know, all he really wants is what used to be called "Devolution Max", where they can have the full power of income taxation, borrowing, and some other things, but keeping all the stuff with the UK that he isn't interested in, and calling it full Independence. The things I really doubt he has any intention of are substantially changing road signs and laws. I think they will be obliged to have their own embassies, and if they don't - no other country is going to take them seriously if they still use our embassies around the world. This is where what Salmond has shown to be as untrustworthy as a typical politician. Like Brendan said, he wants a convenient independence. He harks on about having the power to become fully independent, but what he is offering has ALWAYS been a long long way short of true independence. 1998 110 300Tdi White Hard Top Last edited by Interlet on 9th Sep 2014 9:48am. Edited 1 time in total |
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9th Sep 2014 9:27am |
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| MartinK Member Since: 02 Mar 2011 Location: Silverdale (Lancashire/Cumbria Border) Posts: 2664
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^^ Interlet, agree, I just think the White paper should have been more specific. IMHO there isn't enough proper information for people to understand what they are voting for. The facts are covered-over in the spin and politicians spiel, and that's a shame. I believe that if the information was better available, then Scotland would vote No, because there is too much emotional "Braveheart" and not enough solid decision-making data... Defender "Puma" 2.4 110 County Utility (possibly the last of the 2.4's)
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9th Sep 2014 9:41am |
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