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GREENI



Member Since: 22 Aug 2010
Location: staffs
Posts: 10367

United Kingdom 
As nobody has actually answered the OP's original question.....
You need to put diesel in the Puma.
Post #524397 16th Apr 2016 8:37am
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GREENI



Member Since: 22 Aug 2010
Location: staffs
Posts: 10367

United Kingdom 
....more than a tenner. Mr. Green
Post #524398 16th Apr 2016 8:38am
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adamatdraycott



Member Since: 11 Nov 2013
Location: Midlands
Posts: 299

United Kingdom 2014 Defender 90 Puma 2.2 SW Corris Grey
I personally only use Shell, they are quite popular around here and where I work.

I find my 90 2.2 does around 40miles less per tank of v power compared to the standard shell diesel. I use mpg calc on my phone to calc the mpg. Averaging about 29mpg over the last 12months
Post #524413 16th Apr 2016 9:52am
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Phil VM2.5



Member Since: 28 Mar 2012
Location: Limelette
Posts: 196

Belgium 2012 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 SW Keswick Green
Hi,
The only important thing is to not take diesel with water !
This happened som days ago at a station in Ath little city in Belgium.
Then you will have a big problem.
I am lucky go not have yet be in that situation.
There are insurance for that but ....
About go see différence between quality of diesel, I can not.
In the past I was taking the best, the last 10 years the cheapper.
Phil current : defender 110 sw 2.2 puma 2012 and 230.000km today and
again my Range Rover VM2.5 engine from 1992 and 528.000km today.

One ten 1988 to 1992
1987 BMW GS80
One Ten from 1984 to 1987
One Ten from 1983 to 1984
Serie 3 109 from 1980 to 1983
from 1974 Jeep CJ3B and CJ6
Post #524653 17th Apr 2016 7:49am
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churchy



Member Since: 28 Jul 2011
Location: UK
Posts: 236

2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 XS CSW Java Black
[quote="Birdy"]“
Land Rover have spent squillions in research to ensure their trucks can operate all over the world using whatever fuel is locally available. And without additives, two stroke oil or whatever. But still clowns ask: “When I take my baby to France will it blow up if I use diesel bought from a supermarket?”

Took my baby to France and used cheap supermarket fuel once and once my engine management light came on……….. Whistle
Post #525506 20th Apr 2016 1:04pm
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Birdy



Member Since: 07 Oct 2011
Location: Côte d'Azur
Posts: 855

France 2011 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 XS CSW Santorini Black
Just for the record, the only real "dodgy fuel" related problem I've encountered (petrol, car wouldn't go faster than about 65 slowing down to about 60 on an incline: righted itself after the next top-up and perfect ever since) WAS after fuelling in France two years ago. From a one-horse village up in the Alps though, not a supermarket.

BUT, diesel or petrol I don't use their Bio stuff, and I agree that any problems are more likely management issues rather than the fuel itself.

Peter
Post #525520 20th Apr 2016 2:34pm
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gilarion



Member Since: 05 Dec 2013
Location: Wales
Posts: 5085

Wales 2007 Defender 90 Other CSW Trident Green
Might help.....

Sorry for the length of the piece but there are some good facts in it.

Maybe a Definitive guide to Supermarket fuel

It’s an everyday debate between people, some of who will swear that their Land Rover runs better on fuel from XYZ Company and those who say that all fuel is the same and they just buy the cheapest supermarket fuel.

The problem is that most people don’t know how the fuel business works.
So let’s start with the simple bit. Premium fuels, such as Shell Nitro and BP Ultimate fuels, these are not the same as regular diesel fuels, we all know that.

These ‘super fuels’ cost several pence per litre more than regular because they use a different, more sophisticated package of additives for cleaning and lubrication, and have a higher cetane rating

Cetane ratings describe the way a fuel burns inside an engine. Broadly speaking, the higher the rating means a fuel will burn more efficiently and effectively inside your engine. This may improve performance and economy slightly – although not all drivers will see a noticeable difference.

No supermarkets presently offer their own super diesel fuels at the pumps, in truth this is because the suppliers will not allow them to buy the fuel with the super package of additives at the refinery.
So is the regular diesel sold by supermarkets the same quality as that sold by branded fuel companies like Shell, BP, Esso and Total?

Let’s start with some known facts:

All diesel fuels sold in the UK must conform to the relevant British Standards. This means that they should all work in roughly the same way and you can mix them freely in your Land Rovers fuel tank.

The standard diesel that’s sold on garage forecourts is mixture of two things base fuel and an additive package

The base fuel is the same for all companies including supermarkets – in fact it usually comes from the same tanks at the local fuel refinery/distribution centre. What varies is the additives package that goes into the fuel. These additives recipes are a closely guarded secret of extra ingredients that help keep the engine clean and improve lubrication inside the engine cylinders.

Each fuel company has its own additive package. So it is possible (but not common) for some Land Rover owners to feel that their car responds better to the additives used by one fuel manufacturer over those of another.

So what About Supermarket Fuels?

There are all sorts of stories that go round about supermarket fuels, but the fact is that supermarket fuel tankers are filling up from the same tanks as branded fuel tankers e.g. Shell, BP etc. so the chances are that most of the time, the fuel they sell is the same.

However, one common story about supermarket fuel is that some supermarkets don’t have a regular fuel supplier. Instead, they buy odd lots of fuel from wherever it’s cheapest though supermarkets deny this. If this does happen and supermarkets swap their suppliers it can lead to supermarket fuel having a more variable set of additives than branded fuels. However Tesco state that their supplier is always ESSO as do Sainsbury. Morrison says their supplier is Total.

Right so what do the Supermarkets say
Tesco
There are minor differences between the additives in regular diesel fuel sold by the different UK retailers. However, I can assure you that it is not correct that Tesco fuel contains inferior additives. In most cases, it will be the same type and dosage of additive that is contained in fuel sold at branded filling stations.
I can also confirm that Tesco diesel fuel does not contain less cold flow improver additive in winter compared to branded diesel.


Morrison’s
Our diesel is supplied to us depending on our stores locality by one of the refiners and blenders that operate in the UK.
We only source from established and reputable refiners and blenders
Our diesel fuels are manufactured and guaranteed to British Standard EN590, precisely the same specifications that will be found in fuel from branded sellers such as BP, Shell, Esso and Total. These current specifications permit up to 5% renewable content in diesel such as Fatty Acid Methyl Esters (vegetable oil).
European law requires all road fuels to contain such renewable feed stocks.
Also in relation to the winter fuel I can advise that Cold flow additives in our Diesel guarantee the properties of Diesel down to minus 15 degrees centigrade.

The argument

Supermarkets state their specifications; on the other hand they are the Minimum requirement specification. So supermarket diesel meets EN950 specification, as I see it that does not automatically make it the same as branded fuels, which may exceed the specifications set for EN950. So the supermarket argument could be flawed.

However every refinery or blender of diesel must meet the British Standard and every production batch is tested and certified before release into the supply chain. Typically, at any refinery or oil depot you will witness the tankers of all branded retailers and supermarkets filling from the same common wholesale tanks.

So why is Supermarket fuel cheaper, it is because they sell such vast quantities and their operating costs are spread over higher volumes? Plus they also sell thousands of other products so can afford to offer fuel at a discount and offer as a loss leader.

Conclusion

All diesel filling stations use a standard ‘base’ fuel which is supplied from the same refineries across the UK no matter what pump it will end up being pumped from into your tank. So going off all the known facts, specifications and statement from various supermarkets, it would appear that supermarket regular diesel is the same as branded fuel, the additive package while slightly different in supermarket fuel is on paper just as good as those added to branded diesel, these additives can affect the MPG and general running of the vehicle that some drivers may experience more extremely in some brands than others including supermarket fuel, but in some cases you may not even notice any difference at all. BUT the fuel is all from the same refineries which all meets the same British Standards, so you can use any diesel to fill up your Land Rover knowing it’s all of the same base’ fuel.
Supermarkets have recently come in for bad press with the quality of their fuel; however, this is due to contamination in their holding tanks and not on the quality of their base fuel.

So there you have it on paper no difference at all with standard diesel. Premium diesel has a better additive recipe, but you pay for it and many swear by it, but you cannot compare super fuels with regular supermarket diesel. Personally I use any fuel. both branded and supermarket. but I always add Millers and my engines run sweet. For those who like Welsh Mountains and narrow boats have a look at my videos and photos at..

http://www.youtube.com/user/conwy1
Post #525538 20th Apr 2016 4:28pm
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twinspark



Member Since: 04 Apr 2015
Location: Edinburgh
Posts: 18

Scotland 2013 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 XS CSW Orkney Grey
My general preference is either Shell V-Power Nitro or BP Ultimate.

*SUBJECTIVELY* the Land Rover (and I have nothing to counter this in my head as I rarely use Supermarket / Ordinary Diesel now - see below) runs better and is quieter.

*OBJECTIVELY* my previous car had cruise control and I did a considerable number of the same journey (same roads) at the same time of day (wee small hours of the morning) with the cruise control consistently set to the same speed (speedometer needle and GPS speed confirmed). My averages (brim to brim not fuel computer) with the various fuel types were:-
- Supermarket Alone = 50.1 mpg
- Supermarket + Millers Additive = 50.9 mpg
- Shell V-Power Alone = 52.8 mpg
- Shell V-Power + Millers Additive = 53.9 mpg
So now I just tend to stick with V-Power or else BP Ultimate.

For those of you with Petrol cars, I can highly recommend Shell V-Power, but not that which we get in the UK. If you get the opportunity, Shell V-Power 100 Octane (Racing) as sold in Germany is a complete revelation. My late Father in Law commented on how well my car ran on it - you could accelerate onto the Autobahn in 6th gear from 35mph and it would pull hard even from that low speed - presumably the engine management system "knew" it was getting "good stuff". The average on that went from 55.5 mpg to 61.4 mpg.
Post #526191 23rd Apr 2016 3:16pm
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Ayrshirelandy



Member Since: 28 Mar 2015
Location: Ayrshire
Posts: 140

Scotland 
Fuel
Being an ex oil worker I can tell you the difference is the additive, which is controlled by a key at the refinery. Shell, BP etc drivers have their own key for their own additive. Supermarkets run with no additive - but common to all is that in Central Scotland it all comes out of Grangemouth refinery. i have seen Esso, BP, Shell Asda, Morrisons and Sainsbury's all loading up and the same fuel used but for the additive. I personally try to use BP Premium if possible 2015 Defender 110 XS Utility Santorini Black, sawtooth alloys, steps and so much more...........
Post #526192 23rd Apr 2016 3:26pm
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LoveTheMud



Member Since: 19 Feb 2015
Location: Weybridge Surrey & Pontefract West Yorkshire
Posts: 411

United Kingdom 2014 Defender 90 Puma 2.2 XS CSW Santorini Black
something I have seen lately at petrol stations is that BP and shell both advertise going more MPG on premium fuel than on basic. Also I happen to believe that premium looks after your engine more than standard, although I only have a few sources to back that up... I only ever use premium Shell or BP
Post #526199 23rd Apr 2016 4:11pm
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mick



Member Since: 08 Feb 2010
Location: Yorkshire
Posts: 2109

England 2010 Defender 130 Puma 2.4 HCPU Rimini Red
gilarion wrote:
Might help.....

Sorry for the length of the piece but there are some good facts in it.

Maybe a Definitive guide to Supermarket fuel

It’s an everyday debate between people, some of who will swear that their Land Rover runs better on fuel from XYZ Company and those who say that all fuel is the same and they just buy the cheapest supermarket fuel.

The problem is that most people don’t know how the fuel business works.
So let’s start with the simple bit. Premium fuels, such as Shell Nitro and BP Ultimate fuels, these are not the same as regular diesel fuels, we all know that.

These ‘super fuels’ cost several pence per litre more than regular because they use a different, more sophisticated package of additives for cleaning and lubrication, and have a higher cetane rating

Cetane ratings describe the way a fuel burns inside an engine. Broadly speaking, the higher the rating means a fuel will burn more efficiently and effectively inside your engine. This may improve performance and economy slightly – although not all drivers will see a noticeable difference.

No supermarkets presently offer their own super diesel fuels at the pumps, in truth this is because the suppliers will not allow them to buy the fuel with the super package of additives at the refinery.
So is the regular diesel sold by supermarkets the same quality as that sold by branded fuel companies like Shell, BP, Esso and Total?

Let’s start with some known facts:

All diesel fuels sold in the UK must conform to the relevant British Standards. This means that they should all work in roughly the same way and you can mix them freely in your Land Rovers fuel tank.

The standard diesel that’s sold on garage forecourts is mixture of two things base fuel and an additive package

The base fuel is the same for all companies including supermarkets – in fact it usually comes from the same tanks at the local fuel refinery/distribution centre. What varies is the additives package that goes into the fuel. These additives recipes are a closely guarded secret of extra ingredients that help keep the engine clean and improve lubrication inside the engine cylinders.

Each fuel company has its own additive package. So it is possible (but not common) for some Land Rover owners to feel that their car responds better to the additives used by one fuel manufacturer over those of another.

So what About Supermarket Fuels?

There are all sorts of stories that go round about supermarket fuels, but the fact is that supermarket fuel tankers are filling up from the same tanks as branded fuel tankers e.g. Shell, BP etc. so the chances are that most of the time, the fuel they sell is the same.

However, one common story about supermarket fuel is that some supermarkets don’t have a regular fuel supplier. Instead, they buy odd lots of fuel from wherever it’s cheapest though supermarkets deny this. If this does happen and supermarkets swap their suppliers it can lead to supermarket fuel having a more variable set of additives than branded fuels. However Tesco state that their supplier is always ESSO as do Sainsbury. Morrison says their supplier is Total.

Right so what do the Supermarkets say
Tesco
There are minor differences between the additives in regular diesel fuel sold by the different UK retailers. However, I can assure you that it is not correct that Tesco fuel contains inferior additives. In most cases, it will be the same type and dosage of additive that is contained in fuel sold at branded filling stations.
I can also confirm that Tesco diesel fuel does not contain less cold flow improver additive in winter compared to branded diesel.


Morrison’s
Our diesel is supplied to us depending on our stores locality by one of the refiners and blenders that operate in the UK.
We only source from established and reputable refiners and blenders
Our diesel fuels are manufactured and guaranteed to British Standard EN590, precisely the same specifications that will be found in fuel from branded sellers such as BP, Shell, Esso and Total. These current specifications permit up to 5% renewable content in diesel such as Fatty Acid Methyl Esters (vegetable oil).
European law requires all road fuels to contain such renewable feed stocks.
Also in relation to the winter fuel I can advise that Cold flow additives in our Diesel guarantee the properties of Diesel down to minus 15 degrees centigrade.

The argument

Supermarkets state their specifications; on the other hand they are the Minimum requirement specification. So supermarket diesel meets EN950 specification, as I see it that does not automatically make it the same as branded fuels, which may exceed the specifications set for EN950. So the supermarket argument could be flawed.

However every refinery or blender of diesel must meet the British Standard and every production batch is tested and certified before release into the supply chain. Typically, at any refinery or oil depot you will witness the tankers of all branded retailers and supermarkets filling from the same common wholesale tanks.

So why is Supermarket fuel cheaper, it is because they sell such vast quantities and their operating costs are spread over higher volumes? Plus they also sell thousands of other products so can afford to offer fuel at a discount and offer as a loss leader.

Conclusion

All diesel filling stations use a standard ‘base’ fuel which is supplied from the same refineries across the UK no matter what pump it will end up being pumped from into your tank. So going off all the known facts, specifications and statement from various supermarkets, it would appear that supermarket regular diesel is the same as branded fuel, the additive package while slightly different in supermarket fuel is on paper just as good as those added to branded diesel, these additives can affect the MPG and general running of the vehicle that some drivers may experience more extremely in some brands than others including supermarket fuel, but in some cases you may not even notice any difference at all. BUT the fuel is all from the same refineries which all meets the same British Standards, so you can use any diesel to fill up your Land Rover knowing it’s all of the same base’ fuel.
Supermarkets have recently come in for bad press with the quality of their fuel; however, this is due to contamination in their holding tanks and not on the quality of their base fuel.

So there you have it on paper no difference at all with standard diesel. Premium diesel has a better additive recipe, but you pay for it and many swear by it, but you cannot compare super fuels with regular supermarket diesel. Personally I use any fuel. both branded and supermarket. but I always add Millers and my engines run sweet.


Aye and it says OXO on the back of buses Rolling with laughter when millers oil sold fuel from Brighouse there's came from the cheapest refiners usually Russia ! For the bit of extra cost I'm sticking to the top brands Thumbs Up
Post #526365 24th Apr 2016 9:07am
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LoveTheMud



Member Since: 19 Feb 2015
Location: Weybridge Surrey & Pontefract West Yorkshire
Posts: 411

United Kingdom 2014 Defender 90 Puma 2.2 XS CSW Santorini Black
The simple fact for me is I have never been to a BP or Shell garage and seen rusting rundown pumps, although I'm sure there are some somewhere. For me, it's not just the fuel, but the containers they are transported and then subsiquently stored in at the garage.

As a side note, fuels from the brands like BP and Shell don't need to buy in, on the open Market, as the supermarkets do. Supermarkets will wait for a good price on the market and quite often buy substantial options to buy more at the same price later, this means that they get the best price they can now, but can quite often make a substantial profit (or loss) on the market themselves if they sell on to another supermarket at a later date. Whether this has any impact on how they supply, or the quality of fuel used, I don't know, but I would be hesitant to say they only buy fuels from one supplier like esso etc when they are buying it on the open market as a commodity. They also quite often buy it at the last minute to get the best price, which also could impact choice of suppliers
Post #526383 24th Apr 2016 10:03am
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jk84



Member Since: 17 Feb 2015
Location: Wherever my Defender takes me...
Posts: 720

United Kingdom 2015 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 XS CSW Aintree Green
Good read gilarion, thanks for that Thumbs Up

I myself try to always fill up with Shell V-Power for the extra lubrication and protection. Worth the extra pennies I think and using the loyalty card I get some back through vouchers. Ultimately, would be same as using an additive with standard diesel. I also find that the V-Power diesel is available at well maintained and frequently used garages, so an extra piece of mind. As for the supermarket fuels, I try to to avoid them just because I came across bad press in the past when it comes to transport, storage, station facilities maintenance. For the same reason I wouldn't fill up at what looks a neglected, infrequently used and poorly maintained garage. On the other hand, I go the extra mile only because Defender is a keeper. Prior to having one, I filled up with anything/anywhere Embarassed MY15 Aintree 110 SW - for sale - https://www.defender2.net/forum/topic82781.html
MY16 Santorini 90 HT - sold
Post #526980 26th Apr 2016 4:05pm
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