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| Cupboard Member Since: 21 Mar 2014 Location: Suffolk Posts: 2971   
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Your car doesn't have to be legal to pass an MOT.
Your headlights do need to be "E" marked to be legal. The cheapest decent E marked LED headlights are Trucklights from nakatanenga: http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic37882.html There are other routes to more light output, foremost of those is Wipac Crystal headlights with Osram Nightbreaker bulbs and and upgraded power feed to them meaning you get 14V at the lamp rather than 11V which the standard wiring and dodgy switch provide. Last edited by Cupboard on 4th Feb 2016 10:09pm. Edited 1 time in total |
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4th Feb 2016 9:01pm |
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| PHIL90 Member Since: 23 Jan 2016 Location: GLOUCESTERSHIRE Posts: 9 
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OK, thanks for that. If I were to go down the knight breaker route are they led bulbs giving that white light? I have got wipac clear lenses in all ready. Are you also saying to increase the voltage to these bulbs? Is it easy enough to do? Thanks.
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4th Feb 2016 9:40pm |
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| leeds Member Since: 28 Dec 2009 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 8578
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To be road legal in the UL ALL vehicle obligatory lights have to be type approved or E marked. No ifs, no buts No E mark they are ILLEGAL.
Some of the LED headlights on sites such as Ebay are NOT Emarked = ILLEGAL Many of the LED headlights are unbranded so how can you check the specification? Some of the LED headlights on sites use names which are very similar to a reputable brand! Many of the LED headlights state that they are waterproof but will not give you an IP rating. Why not? Minimum acceptable IP rating is 67 the best IP69K With a budget of about £250, if you want a branded, road legal, E marked, IP69K rating then Truck Lites from Nakatanenga is a good choice. Send him a PM on here or email Nakatanenga. Brendan |
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4th Feb 2016 9:52pm |
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| Cupboard Member Since: 21 Mar 2014 Location: Suffolk Posts: 2971
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There are loads of threads about it, but have a look here for starters: http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic32094.html The background is that the standard setup passes all the current for the lights down cabling and through a switch by the steering wheel that's a bit pathetic. The switch in particular is quite pants and has a habit of melting and causing the headlights to completely stop working. The combination of a load of not great components means that there is a substantial voltage drop, meaning the headlights don't get anything like the voltage that the alternator is producing (about 14V). Light output of an incandescent bulb at 11V is *much* lower than at 14V. There are two potential fixes. The first is LED headlights which use a lower current so don't put so much load on the wiring and the switch, and in so doing reduce the voltage drop which doesn't affect them anyway because they're usually constant brightness between 10 and 30V. The second fix is to run heavier gauge wiring to a pair of relays mounted in the engine bay and controlled by the existing wiring. You still have all the standard wiring, but you've taken the load of the headlights away from it. Osram Nightbreakers are well reviewed (and effective) high output 55/60W headlamp bulb. They sacrifice longevity for higher output. There are other bulbs out there. Fitting an LED bulb in to a light that's designed for an incandescent will void its E mark approval and doesn't really work very well. |
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4th Feb 2016 10:21pm |
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| PHIL90 Member Since: 23 Jan 2016 Location: GLOUCESTERSHIRE Posts: 9
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Interesting, I think I will start with a bulb change first, just trying to get a similar white light to my led side lights as my current headlight bulbs throw a more yellow light. Just me being fussy.
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4th Feb 2016 10:29pm |
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| Happyoldgit Member Since: 14 Sep 2007 Location: Norfolk Posts: 3471 
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Yellow bulbs would indicate that you aren't getting a decent supply at the bulb. If I were you I would check your connections and also think about fitting a loom and relay, there are plenty of threads on here about loom upgrades. Then, and only then, think about upgrading the bulbs themselves. Steve.
Owned numerous Land Rover vehicles of all shapes and sizes over the decades. Current Defender: A non tarts hand-bagged Puma 110 XS USW. [Insert something impressive here such as extensive list of previous Land Rovers or examples of your prestigeous and expensive items, trinkets, houses, bikes, vehicles etc] http://forums.lr4x4.com I used to be Miserable ...but now I'm ecstatic. |
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4th Feb 2016 10:52pm |
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| Lost for Words Member Since: 18 Jun 2015 Location: Warminster, Wiltshire Posts: 200 |
Acually, they're not. As Osram's own figures show, Night Breakers emit the same luminous flux as their Original Line bulbs! This is pretty much the case with all the upgrade bulbs. To be legal, they have to stay within the regulations; their standard bulbs will reach the limits of these regulations, and so the upgrade ones are simply not brighter and are a complete waste of money that won't last as long. A "whiter"/"bluer" bulb is often perceived as brighter, because we are much more sensitive to colour temperature than luminous intensity, but a "whiter"/"bluer" light is not actually beneficial to our vision either and is nothing more than a fashion statement, and let's face it, no-one gives a damn about the colour of anyone elses headlights! Halogen bulbs will not colour match LEDs without a very severe loss of light so forget that. If you want the best vision, bulb life and value for money, stick with standard halogen bulbs.  Visiting from DISCO3.CO.UK
Discovery 3 TDV6 Auto HSE Zambezi Silver  |
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5th Feb 2016 1:00pm |
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| Supacat Member Since: 16 Oct 2012 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 11018 
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or he could just be French? 
Seriously, the loom comment is definitely the place to start. |
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5th Feb 2016 5:08pm |
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| PHIL90 Member Since: 23 Jan 2016 Location: GLOUCESTERSHIRE Posts: 9
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Thanks for all the useful posts.
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5th Feb 2016 6:50pm |
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| Alun Member Since: 22 Dec 2015 Location: Snowdonia Posts: 28 
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I came across these when searching for LED headlights - £160 + VAT including free next day delivery. Seems a good price so I've just ordered some
http://shop.aes.gb.com/truck-lite-27291c-7...6317-p.asp EDIT: Looks like I got the last set  |
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6th Feb 2016 12:09am |
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| leeds Member Since: 28 Dec 2009 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 8578
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Alun, just be a bit cautious. That web page you linked to is broken If you have a quick look around that website yes you can find the Truck Lite 7" headlight at £160 + VAT with free carriage.
Unless that broken web page shows something very different and clearly I would suggest that the price is for a single headlight unit. If you read this from the same website at £160 + VAT there is no mention of a pair or 2 headlights. The cheapest price for a pair of Truck Lites in the UK that I am aware of is here at £290 per pair including delivery to the UK. However if you drop Peter at Nakatanenga an email or pm you will get a discount (nasty, nasty D word) on that price. Ahh was about to direct you to here Seems you have found it 
The Truck Lites Nakatanenga have are genuine RHD UK spec Truck Lites as we were offered that stock last year by the Truck Lite European Rep. You will struggle to beat the Nakatanenga price on a pair of genuine Truck Lites Brendan |
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6th Feb 2016 3:31pm |
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| Alun Member Since: 22 Dec 2015 Location: Snowdonia Posts: 28
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Thanks for the advice Brendan - I guess it was too good to be true
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7th Feb 2016 1:56pm |
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| Cupboard Member Since: 21 Mar 2014 Location: Suffolk Posts: 2971
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Hmm... interesting. Thanks for raising that point. So Osram do a few different bulbs under the 64193 umbrella, all with nominally the same output but different life span. The 64193L (long life) has 4-5 times the rated lifetime of the NBU (Night Breaker Unlimited). Why are we all buying the short life one then?! Lumens output of all H4s is 1650/1000lm but they do other 55W bulbs with a higher than 1000lm output which is interesting. I am quite confused... Facts I think I know: Lumens output is the same. NBU life is lower. Osram claim more light on the road and greater throw with the NBU. Then: Higher power per millimetre of filament but shorter filament (so higher specific power, same total power) would give a higher actual temperature so a less yellow light. To increase the specific power you'd have to have a thinner and more fragile filament which would fit in the the reduced lifespan. So with a Night Breaker we've presumably got a beam with a higher colour temperature and higher spot intensity (cd) but same overall light output (lm). Which I guess is then easier to focus well so there are fewer losses? Higher colour temperature "seems" brighter because our eyes are fickle. Then it comes down to two things: 1) Whether it's easier to spot hazards with a higher (whiter) or lower (yellower) colour temperature - didn't someone decide that yellow was good? 2) Are the headlight units big enough that the higher peak intensity doesn't make any difference? The larger the reflector the better, and Defenders have pretty big reflectors as far as car headlights go. |
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7th Feb 2016 5:13pm |
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| Lost for Words Member Since: 18 Jun 2015 Location: Warminster, Wiltshire Posts: 200 |
Parallel conversation on the matter here: http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic43730.html
The filament size difference is very, very minimal, but that all helps them to twist the figures. As you say, the bigger the reflector, the less the difference it makes, and yes, a warmer (or even selective yellow) light is to be regarded as better on the whole and particularly in poor weather conditions, even though it is not as "fashionable" at present. The short life is not so much due to fragility but simply because the smaller the filament is the faster it will burn out. All the factors play into the manufacturers hands because we think were getting a better bulbs while they're then selling us more of them and at higher prices! Regarding the wattage and lumen correlation, the 1000lm low beam filaments used in an H4 bulb are lower efficacy ones such that they give longer life considering the dipped beam needs to be more reliable and is often used for more time. Different bulb specs also call for different efficacies - e.g. H11 is often used for fogs, which may be more inconvenient to change so a slightly lower output of 1350lm gives longer life. H4 bulbs are often/usually used as part of a more simple, single bulb system so maximum main beam output is important etc. Visiting from DISCO3.CO.UK
Discovery 3 TDV6 Auto HSE Zambezi Silver |
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7th Feb 2016 6:01pm |
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