↓ Advertise on Defender2 ↓

Home > Puma (Tdci) > Alarm sounds when cold cranking
Post Reply  Down to end
Page 1 of 1
Print this entire topic · 
WhiskyJackR



Member Since: 25 Nov 2014
Location: Lizard
Posts: 159

United Kingdom 
Alarm sounds when cold cranking
Dear all,

RE: MY2013 Defender 90 County Station Wagon

Since new I have noticed that if the Landy is left for a couple of days or if it's a cold morning, that when I turn the ignition key, wait for the glow plug light to disappear, and then crank the engine over the alarm sounds for a couple of blasts. I just put up with it as it only happened occasionally.
Since I've fitted the Skytag and when this occurs I also get a message from Skytag to say my battery has been disconnected.

I am guessing that the current draw on cold cranking is sufficient to trigger the sub alarm and allow the Skytag device to see a voltage drop that it is assuming, momentarily, is the battery being disconnected.

Has anyone else had this issue? Any ideas?

I checked the battery cables and they are tight including the main earth connection on the gear box. The car always starts first time and cranks over with plenty of gusto. Any farther South and I'll need to trade the Defender in for a Landing Craft Smile
Post #493477 17th Jan 2016 9:31pm
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
dlks151



Member Since: 30 Jun 2014
Location: Auchinloch
Posts: 67

Scotland 
I've noticed something similar to this myself. I've had it on 3nr occasions, twice after having been left out through extreme wet conditions, and once when we got down to minus 6, I get a single blast from the alarm and although I also have Skytag fitted I get no notifications.

No issues with it turning over, or cutting out.
Post #493521 17th Jan 2016 10:56pm
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
PrivateB



Member Since: 02 Dec 2013
Location: Lincolnshire
Posts: 34

United Kingdom 2013 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 USW Orkney Grey
Mine does similar - although only if left for more than a week or so... I've put it down to the battery being tad low and the alarm thinking the power has been cut briefly
Post #493529 17th Jan 2016 11:18pm
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
WhiskyJackR



Member Since: 25 Nov 2014
Location: Lizard
Posts: 159

United Kingdom 
Bump.

Thanks for your comments guys, so not an isolated problem.

Wondering of any of the technical guru's have a thought on likely cause? Blackwolf, could you comment please. Any farther South and I'll need to trade the Defender in for a Landing Craft Smile
Post #493538 17th Jan 2016 11:57pm
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
WhiskyJackR



Member Since: 25 Nov 2014
Location: Lizard
Posts: 159

United Kingdom 
sorry, duplicated! Any farther South and I'll need to trade the Defender in for a Landing Craft Smile
Post #493539 17th Jan 2016 11:57pm
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
blackwolf



Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 17305

United Kingdom 2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Stornoway Grey
I'd say without doubt that both the alarm and Skytag alert are the result of the battery terminal voltage dropping while cranking. The only immediate solution I can think of would be to fit a larger capacity battery with a greater CCA (cold cranking amperage) rating.

If the vehicle is under warranty I would invite the dealer to do this.

It might be worth checking that there is nothing draining the battery unusually whilst the vehicle is standing. It should take several weeks of standing to flatten the battery enough to cause problems.


Last edited by blackwolf on 18th Jan 2016 12:10am. Edited 1 time in total
Post #493541 18th Jan 2016 12:06am
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
WhiskyJackR



Member Since: 25 Nov 2014
Location: Lizard
Posts: 159

United Kingdom 
Cool, thanks Blackwolf Smile Any farther South and I'll need to trade the Defender in for a Landing Craft Smile
Post #493542 18th Jan 2016 12:07am
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
miker



Member Since: 13 Sep 2015
Location: Surrey
Posts: 1762

United Kingdom 1999 Defender 110 Td5 CSW Rioja Red
Second what blackwolf says! I'd also take this as an opportunity to pick up a CTEK charger to leave connected to the vehicle, making sure that the battery is always kept topped off.
Post #493547 18th Jan 2016 12:42am
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
Supacat



Member Since: 16 Oct 2012
Location: West Yorkshire
Posts: 11018

United Kingdom 2013 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 XS DCPU Keswick Green
It might be worth taking this as an early warning sign and doing something about it before it becomes an issue that may leave you stranded somewhere.

You cannot reply on the alternator to top the battery up according to the MY12 Workshop manual:

"Do not rely on the generator to restore a discharged battery. For a generator to recharge a battery, it would take in excess of eight hours continuous driving with no additional loads placed on the battery.

Trickle charging (defined as voltages <16 volts) may be carried out with the battery connected. Make sure that the
battery terminals are fully tightened prior to trickle charging."

Out of interest, are the same size batteries fited to 90s as 110s? Mine's a MY13 and has a Varta 90 Ah fitted.


Click image to enlarge


There's a code - CX23-10655-BA - but nothing that the Varta website recognises.

800 A (EN) should also refer to the Cold Cranking Amps.
Post #493644 18th Jan 2016 12:39pm
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
McGeordie



Member Since: 20 Feb 2012
Location: Central Scotland
Posts: 220

United Kingdom 2014 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 USW Montalcino Red
mine does the same as described by dilks151, I'm sure I read on the forum the issue could be down to one of the door courtesy light switches, I checked the retaining screws and the passenger one wasn't fully tightened, one tightened...no issues. There maybe a more technical/specific solution for individuals, but I have an alarm and skytag, and my car sometimes sits for a week without going anywhere, but this simple solution has worked for me, so worth a check. Sold Def 90 HT 2010...Stornaway..(SOLD in Oct 2014)
Current: delivered October 2014:- 110 USW XS.....Montalcino Red
Post #493657 18th Jan 2016 1:09pm
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
Orangesofa



Member Since: 10 Oct 2014
Location: Somerset
Posts: 214

United Kingdom 2013 Defender 90 Puma 2.2 SW Keswick Green
Mine started doing this after an extended period of little use. This culminated in the alarm continuing to sound having triggered without provocation back in December. When I went to investigate, the central locking opened but the rest of the electrics would not function. The battery was as flat as a pancake.

After 2 days plugged into the CTEK, the battery was fine and no more alarm sounding on cold cranking. My assumption was that the alarm detects the voltage drop below a prescribed threshold as the starter cranks and so sounds the alarm. Once the battery is back up to full charge, the cranking doesn't cause it to drop below said threshold.

Still working fine but I do make more of an effort to drive it regularly to keep the charge up. Phil
Post #493700 18th Jan 2016 2:54pm
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
dorsetsmith



Member Since: 30 Oct 2011
Location: South West
Posts: 4554

blackwolf wrote:
I'd say without doubt that both the alarm and Skytag alert are the result of the battery terminal voltage dropping while cranking. The only immediate solution I can think of would be to fit a larger capacity battery with a greater CCA (cold cranking amperage) rating.

If the vehicle is under warranty I would invite the dealer to do this.

It might be worth checking that there is nothing draining the battery unusually whilst the vehicle is standing. It should take several weeks of standing to flatten the battery enough to cause problems.


td5 defender 90 and 110, 120Ah 1000CCA as standard !

previous owner fitted 90Ah 840 850 CCA battery trouble staring in cold 90 pick up replacement larger capacity battery fitted my cold starting problems go away

with the old battery out of the land rover re charged it to 100% and tested it and fond that it reported AH had dropped form new Exclamation

Does temperature effect how a battery performs?


Battery capacity (how many amp-hours it can hold) is reduced as temperature goes down, and increased as temperature goes up. This is why your car battery dies on a cold winter morning, even though it worked fine the previous afternoon. If your batteries spend part of the year shivering in the cold, the reduced capacity has to be taken into account when sizing the system batteries. The standard rating for batteries is at room temperature - 25 degrees C (about 77 F). At approximately -22 degrees F (-27 C), battery AH capacity drops to 50%. At freezing, capacity is reduced by 20%. Capacity is increased at higher temperatures - at 122 degrees F, battery capacity would be about 12% higher.

Battery charging voltage also changes with temperature. It will vary from about 2.74 volts per cell (16.4 volts) at -40 C to 2.3 volts per cell (13.8 volts) at 50 C. This is why you should have temperature compensation on your charger or charge control if your batteries are outside and/or subject to wide temperature variations. Some charge controls have temperature compensation built in (such as Morningstar) - this works fine if the controller is subject to the same temperatures as the batteries. However, if your batteries are outside, and the controller is inside, it does not work that well. Adding another complication is that large battery banks make up a large thermal mass.

Thermal mass means that because they have so much mass, they will change internal temperature much slower than the surrounding air temperature. A large insulated battery bank may vary as little as 10 degrees over 24 hours internally, even though the air temperature varies from 20 to 70 degrees. For this reason, external (add-on) temperature sensors should be attached to one of the POSITIVE plate terminals, and bundled up a little with some type of insulation on the terminal. The sensor will then read very close to the actual internal battery temperature.

Even though battery capacity at high temperatures is higher, battery life is shortened. Battery capacity is reduced by 50% at -22 degrees F - but battery LIFE increases by about 60%. Battery life is reduced at higher temperatures - for every 15 degrees F over 77, battery life is cut in half. This holds true for ANY type of Lead-Acid battery, whether sealed, gelled, AGM, industrial or whatever. This is actually not as bad as it seems, as the battery will tend to average out the good and bad times.

One last note on temperatures - in some places that have extremely cold or hot conditions, batteries may be sold locally that are NOT standard electrolyte (acid) strengths. The electrolyte may be stronger (for cold) or weaker (for very hot) climates. In such cases, the specific gravity and the voltages may vary from what we show.
Post #493705 18th Jan 2016 3:07pm
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
RRUK
Site Supporter


Member Since: 31 Mar 2010
Location: Leicestershire
Posts: 2025

United Kingdom 
From my experience of reading countless threads on the FFRR forum, I would put money on the battery needing replacing.

Once they start to show niggly problems it only gets worse. Count yourself lucky, Range Rover owners come bleating that everything under the sun has gone wrong on the dash and assume the worst. £100 and a new battery battery and unsurprisingly it's all fixed. 2016 D4 HSE

1998 110 TUM HS FFR Hard Top XD WOLF

1982 Series 3 SWB Petrol
Post #493733 18th Jan 2016 4:28pm
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
WhiskyJackR



Member Since: 25 Nov 2014
Location: Lizard
Posts: 159

United Kingdom 
Thanks for all the responses.

Seems like the most likely culprit is the battery!!! It has been doing this off and on since it was new so perhaps I just got a duff. It never fails to start and always cranks over at a rate of knots so I thought it might be something other.

Perhaps it's time to drop an Optima in? On that note is a single Optima 1500 a straight drop in switch, is the mounting compatible?

Cheers ...... Nick Any farther South and I'll need to trade the Defender in for a Landing Craft Smile
Post #493857 18th Jan 2016 8:45pm
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
Supacat



Member Since: 16 Oct 2012
Location: West Yorkshire
Posts: 11018

United Kingdom 2013 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 XS DCPU Keswick Green
Well decided to pre-empt any starting issues and stuck the battery on trickle charge using the excellent tow plug adaptor:


It took a good 10 hours to go from amber to green:

Click image to enlarge


I must find a way to better protect this plug - either replace with a waterproof one or extend the flying lead so I can tuck in in the tub with the charger and extension reel:

Click image to enlarge
Post #494427 20th Jan 2016 1:53pm
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Post Reply
Post Reply  Back to top
Page 1 of 1
All times are GMT

Jump to  
Previous Topic | Next Topic >
Posting Rules
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum



Site Copyright © 2006-2024 Futuranet Ltd & Martin Lewis
DEFENDER2.NET RSS Feed - All Forums