 | Home > Maintenance & Modifications > My rusty hole and lower dash |
 
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| donmacn Member Since: 07 Nov 2017 Location: Nth Scotland Posts: 1829  |
Hi Tom,
I think you're right about the 30cm rule - though on the other hand, I thought that it applied to chassis mounting points and seat belts. I didn't know it applied to brake pedals. Maybe best to check the testers manual. It might be "possible" to remove the lower dash itself, and leave the top stuff in place, but not easy. There are two machine screws (bolts) holding the lower dash to the bulkhead and they'd be hard to get to without taking off the top parts. None of that is "difficult" just a bit of a pain, and takes time. You'd need to very carefully label all the loom/wiring connections etc, but it's mainly just a lot of self-tappers. THe brake master cylinder can be pulled away from the servo by a reasonable distance - certainly enough to get the servo out, and then that would give you room to remove the pedal box. I don't know if it would be easy to remove the pedal box and servo as one assembly - but it's only 4 bolts and a clevis bolt with split pin that holds them together. That's all possible enough. Donald 1994 Defender 300Tdi 110 SW - owned since 2002 - 230k miles and going strong (The 'rolling restoration' or tinkering thread: http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic58538.html ) 2000 Range Rover P38 4.0L V8 in the past.. RR classic - fitted with 200Tdi 1984 RR classic - V8 with ZF auto box 1993 Discovery 300Tdi not to mention the minis and the Type 2 VW camper... |
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16th Mar 2023 8:18pm |
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| TomB8 Member Since: 17 Nov 2022 Location: West Sussex Posts: 110  
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Hello Donald,
Thank you for your reply. For you info from https://www.gov.uk/guidance/mot-inspection...s/1-brakes  Click image to enlarge I guess the answer is just to take the top of the dash out and then the bottom. At least that will reveal any other hidden horrors that can be dealt with at the same time. As you suggest, I will endeavour to record the location of all of the wires etc... Good to know re the brake parts. I guess I will have to just crack on with this and see what ends up being the easiest option without damaging anything. Thank you again for your input! |
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17th Mar 2023 1:29am |
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| Dinnu Member Since: 24 Dec 2019 Location: Lija Posts: 3208  
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Removing the wing is fairly easy, and easier than removing the dash. And as donmacn said, you can pull away the brake master and remove the brake pedal box and servo without the master cylinder to save you bleeding the brakes. But then you should also consider possible damage to the dash covering from heat during welding if you go this route. The dash itself, under the vinyl is steel. 1988 90 Hard Top, 19J Diesel Turbo, Shire Blue - Restoration ongoing
2012 90 CSW, 2.2TDCI, Santorini Black |
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17th Mar 2023 5:54am |
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| kenzle8a Member Since: 12 Feb 2020 Location: None Posts: 1074 
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Its not a hassle to remove the dash, I took mine out in a couple of hours bagging and labeling all the screws as if its that bad on the corners it will likely be across the whole dash on both sides. Better to do it all at once.
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17th Mar 2023 9:15am |
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| donmacn Member Since: 07 Nov 2017 Location: Nth Scotland Posts: 1829 |
 The dash under the vinyl is “supposed” to be steel… The last time I had my dash out, the 1994 original had more or less rusted out and the vinyl and foam was all that was holding it together! But I agree that the heat of welding wouldn’t be kind to it. And, in any case, I think I’d want to be able to inspect the inside of the weld anyway to be sure there were no pinholes, and that it wouldn’t affect the dash being replaced.
I think if you do remove the dash to see what other horrors might be found I suspect that you’ll only find corrosion in that location, and the same on the other side. That spot gets hit from both sides: on the outside run-off from the bulkhead rain channel, and the lack of a seal between wing and bulkhead, means water gets to it. If it’s salty, winter UK water that’s worse. Then on the inside, any leakage from the windscreen seal, or windscreen blocks tends to run down the inside of the bulkhead and congregate there before dropping onto the floor. Thanks for the link to the Tester’s manual - that’s pretty clear. I fitted a galved bulkhead in 2008 and haven’t had to worry about that particular spot ever since! Donald 1994 Defender 300Tdi 110 SW - owned since 2002 - 230k miles and going strong (The 'rolling restoration' or tinkering thread: http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic58538.html ) 2000 Range Rover P38 4.0L V8 in the past.. RR classic - fitted with 200Tdi 1984 RR classic - V8 with ZF auto box 1993 Discovery 300Tdi not to mention the minis and the Type 2 VW camper... |
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17th Mar 2023 9:18am |
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| TomB8 Member Since: 17 Nov 2022 Location: West Sussex Posts: 110
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Thanks, chaps.
My reluctance to remove the wing is because I am working at the side of the road, albeit a quiet dead end road with no pavement between the car and my house, but without cover etc and if I don't finish whatever task I take on at the weekend I have to wait 'till the following weekend to finish - at least until the sun is up for longer. Sounds like dash out is definitely the way to go and not as bad as I had first thought. Although, overall it is sounding like the rust is going to be worse than I thought in terms of it likely being present on the other side as well which will necessitate removal of the heater box to sort. All of these things are fine in isolation but time involved is quickly adding up. Shame the weather is looking naff for Saturday and I have been put on puppy training duties. Maybe I can at least get the dash stripped out this weekend ready to cut and patch the bulkhead next weekend. I saw Britannica restorations on youtube added some black mouldable stuff (the name escapes me) to try and stop water getting down between the wing and bulkhead and also a video on sealing up the windscreen blocks, which I must try once I have fixed the hole. I would love to fit a galv bulkhead and in time will no doubt have to, but for now I just want it to last a few more years. This is also giving me some experience welding, which I have never done before. |
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17th Mar 2023 4:19pm |
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| 1NRO Member Since: 22 Feb 2015 Location: cumbria Posts: 69
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Have to say I admire the can do attitude
If I may offer some advice regarding welding without wanting to sound condescending, it’s not my intention if it sounds that way but rather that it took me a goodly amount of practice to dial in on a method that worked, learnt the hard way so to speak. On thin sheet such as you’ll be tackling try and resist the urge to hold the trigger on and burn long welds, you’ll find it much easier to pulse spots of weld at close intervals. Work round the repair section until fully tacked. I like to dress the tacks down (just the tack, not the surrounding metal, edge of disc) before repeating the process as many times as needed to have the repair fully welded. This process is usually accompanied by a bit of hammer time to keep everything in order. I’m thinking a fitted patch repair that fits the hole that you’ve prepped carefully to be back to good metal. If just clapping a plate over the top it’d take a bit more aggressive technique but it is very easy to burn through and then your fighting it. |
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17th Mar 2023 9:25pm |
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| TomB8 Member Since: 17 Nov 2022 Location: West Sussex Posts: 110
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1NRO, thank you for taking the time to offer your welding knowledge. I have watched many hours of youtube mentally prepping for this and your advice correlates with what the chaps in the videos were saying.
I have tried to stick to that method of tack around and fill the gaps with more tacks until the joint is fully welded. It has somewhat worked. I have blown a few holes and had to fill them, some of which was my inexperience with welder settings and some where the metal was thinner (more rusted on the back) than I thought. My panel fit up is not the best which has resulted in a very poor finish (a step at the edge of the weld), but I would rather have a poor finish than a hole! There is only one way for me to learn and that is to do. I see folk on welding forums dissuading others from going near a car with a welder until they have had lots of practice, where's the fun in that!? Here's the passenger footwell repaired the best of my ability (the holes I have seen anyway!). The one by the door I did in one piece and spent over an hour trying to shape to fit in my mess of irregular dremel cuts (couldn't get the grinder in) and it was then 3-4mm too small in places  . I will not do a similar repair out of one piece again! I did learn how to fill big gaps though, every cloud...
Click image to enlarge Click image to enlarge Click image to enlarge Click image to enlarge |
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17th Mar 2023 11:30pm |
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| 1NRO Member Since: 22 Feb 2015 Location: cumbria Posts: 69
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Exactly, the only way is to get on with it, your doing great looking at the pictures.
A die grinder and a needle nosed sander are well worth investing in if you don’t already have them, they help prep and final finishing hugely. |
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18th Mar 2023 4:56am |
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| rustandoil Member Since: 08 Sep 2012 Location: Cotswolds Posts: 666  
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Yes! a small belt sander is a great tool, the Black & Decker Powerfile is around £40, + belts from Screwfix....
Buy lots of these they may last half an hours sanding or thirty seconds 😂 |
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18th Mar 2023 8:14am |
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| Screbble Member Since: 26 Apr 2015 Location: Lancashire Posts: 2030 
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You are indeed doing a grand job |
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18th Mar 2023 11:15am |
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| TomB8 Member Since: 17 Nov 2022 Location: West Sussex Posts: 110
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Thank you all for your kind words and advice. I know it looks a bit naff compared to a pro job, but with a thick brushing of hammerite it ain't too bad. I must pick up one of thos thin belt sanders, they looks good. I had been using burrs and cutting disks on a dremel, but I think a die grinder is in order - any excuse for another tool!
Managed to get the dash, the brake bits and heater box removed today. Started to cut out the rust and make patches but ran out of daylight. When removing the dash, all bar one of the plastic clips broke. I have the part numbers, but I only seem to be able to find black clips. Does anyone know where I can find grey ones, please? What do you guys recommend for painting, especially the parts that will be inside the bulkhead? Some kind of zink rich weld through primer, hammerite or just shoot some wax in after? Same for the dash where I am putting new metal in and also where I need to wire brush off some bubbling paint? I am not fussed how it looks, but don't want to waste my time fixing stuff only to have it go rusty again quickly. I would also like to repaint the heater box and brake pedal box thing. Any recommendations for black paint for that? Hammerite!?
Some photos of progress: Click image to enlarge Click image to enlarge Click image to enlarge One the passenger side (last image) to the left of the photo there is rust between the two skins of metal, this is not evident under the bonnet. Is there something i can put on it to stop it getting worse and avoid cutting it all out? |
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20th Mar 2023 12:27am |
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| TexasRover Member Since: 24 Nov 2022 Location: Paris Posts: 794  
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I think you will get much better access by removing the front mud guard. It is relatively simple to do. I know we all try to do as little possible but it is quite enlightening to have a clear workspace
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20th Mar 2023 7:18am |
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| rustandoil Member Since: 08 Sep 2012 Location: Cotswolds Posts: 666
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Yes... Kurust or Jenolite pretty much the same really |
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20th Mar 2023 9:49am |
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