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Stacey007



Member Since: 25 Sep 2015
Location: Cheshire
Posts: 3693

United Kingdom 
I've just looked at both, and a few pictures...


I can see that the Whitbread sits further out at the front? However assuming the way it bolts / the steel etc is the same strength as the P&P it would be interesting to here why JST has mentioned what he has?

It appears they are fitted to some emergency trucks and many others so unsure what can be wrong. Sad


For me, its a black cage on a black car, I'm guessing after a week of two of it being fitted you would be used to it anyway?


One thing I did notice looking at pictures on their website was they offered quite a discount not log ago during a landrover weekend. So I would be looking at not only if they can make it 'closer' if need be but potential an even greater saving?


P&P Cage






Whitbread




Click image to enlarge





Or in my case a black truck with a black Whitbread cage...





Click image to enlarge





Unsure I'm worried wither way to the way the std Whitbread sits? assuming the strength and safety aspect is the same. Thumbs Up
Post #970508 9th Nov 2022 2:57pm
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diesel_jim



Member Since: 13 Oct 2008
Location: hiding
Posts: 6026

United Kingdom 2006 Defender 110 Td5 SW Epsom Green
I have a P&P full external on my 110 if you need any pics/measurements



Click image to enlarge
Post #970531 9th Nov 2022 5:48pm
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Welshsurferdude



Member Since: 23 Feb 2012
Location: Newport
Posts: 2296

Wales 
Proper chunky defender that Jim!
Bow down Cool

my sorta thing im aiming for with my black 110 USW 2008 Santorini Black 110 XS USW (Sold)

2015 Discovery 4.5 Black pack Firenze red XS

2008 Corris Grey 110 XS USW (sold)

2011 Santorini Black 110 XS USW (Sold)
Post #970539 9th Nov 2022 6:48pm
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Jon w



Member Since: 22 Dec 2015
Location: North East Wales
Posts: 186

Wales 1991 Defender 90 200 Tdi HT Epsom Green
JST hasn't responded but I can only guess that it is what the cage is made from, it may be that Whitbread are made from Blue band steel pipe. Ok if you are leaning vehicle over on its side at low speed but not as strong from higher speed impacts.

As I say I am just speculating and don't know the full details but would be interested to hear JST comments
Post #970565 9th Nov 2022 9:46pm
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diesel_jim



Member Since: 13 Oct 2008
Location: hiding
Posts: 6026

United Kingdom 2006 Defender 110 Td5 SW Epsom Green
Welshsurferdude wrote:
Proper chunky defender that Jim!
Bow down Cool

my sorta thing im aiming for with my black 110 USW


It has changed a little over the years..... BRB bar and 8274 gone, replaced with a factory/camel Husky bumper and superwinch husky.

255's dropped back to 235/85 Conti CC's, as it gets used as a car/van more thesedays.

Apart from that, still the same.

in hindsight I would have got a camel type cage, where the front hoops are external and the rest inside, but hey ho.
Post #970576 10th Nov 2022 5:14am
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Grenadier



Member Since: 23 Jul 2014
Location: The foot of Mont Blanc...
Posts: 5765

France 2011 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Corris Grey
camelman wrote:
Grenadier, are there issues on the continent with type approval etc though for after market accessories such as roll cages?
My brother had one fitted to his 110 DC in Switzerland. SD were able to supply the required documentation with regards to specs etc and it was eventually cleared.

Not sure if other manufactures supply that level of documentation around testing etc.

Just a thought.


Interesting thought Camelman. Switzerland is much stricter, but France is also fairly restrictive. In theory a car cannot be modified in ANY way. However, curiously there are no checks in this regard, save fuel type during the CT (MOT), hence my never being able to swap out the 2.4 for a V8.

So my 18” wheels are, technically, illegal. And certainly a big brake kit, non OE dampers, springs, exhaust, auto box etc etc etc would be (again technically) illegal. Even a remap. However, I can’t see that a roll cage would be a similar type of modification. It’s a safety upgrade, rather than a performance upgrade. Like a roof rack is a utility upgrade and allowed.

The theory behind this policy is to prevent cars being modified performance wise, without the authorities ever being informed (they tax on power and emissions in France, so a more powerful engine would mean more revenue). But as I mentioned, there are absolutely no checks. The CT/MOT checks wear and tear, emissions, capability etc. So if I uprated to a BBK, it would still pass. Likewise suspension, lights etc.

In theory much of what we do actually improves a Defender, makes it safer, handle and brake better etc. But whether this would be accepted in the only scenario I can see the car being checked (by authorities or insurance company in the event of a bad accident) I have no idea. One would hope that logic would prevail and I (or any equivalent Defender owner) wouldn’t be penalised for having better brakes, a safety cage, better suspension, etc etc. Monsieur Le Grenadier

I've not been everywhere, but it's on my list.....

2011 Puma 110DC - Corris Grey
Post #970583 10th Nov 2022 7:29am
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Grenadier



Member Since: 23 Jul 2014
Location: The foot of Mont Blanc...
Posts: 5765

France 2011 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Corris Grey
Welshsurferdude wrote:
Proper chunky defender that Jim!
Bow down Cool

my sorta thing im aiming for with my black 110 USW


Ditto. Thumbs Up Monsieur Le Grenadier

I've not been everywhere, but it's on my list.....

2011 Puma 110DC - Corris Grey
Post #970586 10th Nov 2022 7:35am
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Grenadier



Member Since: 23 Jul 2014
Location: The foot of Mont Blanc...
Posts: 5765

France 2011 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Corris Grey
Stacey007 wrote:
I can see that the Whitbread sits further out at the front?
P&P Cage




Whitbread


Click image to enlarge




Can’t understand why it needs to stick out that much? In every other dimension it seems to be the same as SD or P&P. The front bar also seems, within a few mil, to be fixed to the same area of the front wing. So surely a quick measurement, and a few mil chopped off the gutter and roof bars, would be all that was needed to bring it closer. Agree it probably wouldn’t be visible on my very dark DC, but it would still matter to me as I think I’d be constantly aware of it when in the cab looking out. Rather that wasn’t the case.

Also, like the idea of a cheeky discount. Where’s JST and his answer when you need him? Monsieur Le Grenadier

I've not been everywhere, but it's on my list.....

2011 Puma 110DC - Corris Grey
Post #970588 10th Nov 2022 7:42am
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camelman



Member Since: 27 Feb 2013
Location: Peak District
Posts: 3308

United Kingdom 
Interesting that the Whitbread doesnt go all the way to the back of the roof like the SD cage does? 
Post #970595 10th Nov 2022 8:16am
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geobloke



Member Since: 06 Nov 2012
Location: Nottinghamshire
Posts: 4350

United Kingdom 
Jon w wrote:
As Protection and performance have been bought by Safety Devices...


Well that explains why SD suddenly got around to supplying an RAI for their cages... They bought PandP and use theirs Rolling Eyes
Post #970602 10th Nov 2022 9:09am
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Grenadier



Member Since: 23 Jul 2014
Location: The foot of Mont Blanc...
Posts: 5765

France 2011 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Corris Grey
Whilst not quite as defined, SD cage doesn't either. No idea why. I can only assume its to avoid the fold and welding where the rear facing panel overlaps the rear wing.


 Monsieur Le Grenadier

I've not been everywhere, but it's on my list.....

2011 Puma 110DC - Corris Grey
Post #970603 10th Nov 2022 9:09am
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geobloke



Member Since: 06 Nov 2012
Location: Nottinghamshire
Posts: 4350

United Kingdom 
It is to do with the internal space available in the rear wheel arches. I guess they could have jinked backwards from the rear body mounting to get the tube closer to the back of the bodywork. Might have weakened the structure though...
Post #970604 10th Nov 2022 9:12am
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camelman



Member Since: 27 Feb 2013
Location: Peak District
Posts: 3308

United Kingdom 
Grenadier wrote:
Whilst not quite as defined, SD cage doesn't either. No idea why. I can only assume its to avoid the fold and welding where the rear facing panel overlaps the rear wing.




Laughing Thats my truck! 
Post #970607 10th Nov 2022 9:53am
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Grenadier



Member Since: 23 Jul 2014
Location: The foot of Mont Blanc...
Posts: 5765

France 2011 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Corris Grey
Very nice it is too. No wonder they use it on their website Bow down Monsieur Le Grenadier

I've not been everywhere, but it's on my list.....

2011 Puma 110DC - Corris Grey
Post #970611 10th Nov 2022 10:09am
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Grenadier



Member Since: 23 Jul 2014
Location: The foot of Mont Blanc...
Posts: 5765

France 2011 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Corris Grey
If you compare the bar located by the c-pillar on the SD version versus the WB version, looks like the WB is sitting slightly further forward. More clearly over the line of rivets. I wonder if (depending on the slope angle of the roof bars) if it could be shoved back to both close the gap at the windscreen and reduce the gap at the rear? More closely aligned with SD’s proportions and placement?



 Monsieur Le Grenadier

I've not been everywhere, but it's on my list.....

2011 Puma 110DC - Corris Grey
Post #970612 10th Nov 2022 10:13am
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