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Stacey007



Member Since: 25 Sep 2015
Location: Cheshire
Posts: 3693

United Kingdom 
Will there be a fully electric L663 soon?
Hello


I don't know how many times I have speced up a P400e and then just wait.. something telling me to hold off...


I've even pre registered on the Polstar 3 and started looking at Tesla model X and swaying looking at other fully electric models.

I completely get the short range on a run-about car, the school run, nipping to shops etc would be great but just think spending so much on a <>30 mile range car I would soon regret? I currently use a Mini for this, nippy, small, easy to park.

Longer journeys / weekend use / holidays / carrying bikes / kits etc I need more range in the 'big' car. I appreciate part supplies are causing long delays even with current stock but I would be willing to wait if a fully electric one was coming out?


I would be keeping the 'old' 110 this would be to replace the FFRR (which can do over 40 mpg on almost any run and a range of 500 plus miles (which I appreciate is not happening with a big EV however 300 + would be nice)


Any thoughts on a Fully Defender EV
Post #964833 13th Sep 2022 10:11am
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draughtsman



Member Since: 17 May 2022
Location: Herefordshire
Posts: 3

United Kingdom 
Hi Stacey,

Very much in the same boat as yourself & keep holding off to avoid making a mistake.

When you look at a top end Defender X Dynamic HSE P400e build price you are not far off the price of a 2023 Range Rover Sport SE P440e (£84,530)with a stated EV range of 70 miles.

Worth a look perhaps!

Geoff.
Post #964840 13th Sep 2022 10:58am
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L90Andy



Member Since: 29 May 2014
Location: Stratford-Upon-Avon
Posts: 716

United Kingdom 2006 Defender 90 Td5 SW Zambezi Silver
Short answer no. Long answer, D7u platform not capable of taking a pure EV powertrain, unlike the new MLA-Flex that can do ICE and BEV Thumbs Up Instagram: l90andy

2006 Land Rover 90 TD5 CSW Silver Edition

My 1984 Ninety: http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic56071.html - SOLD!
My 2015 Defender: http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic39625.html - SOLD!
Post #964847 13th Sep 2022 11:19am
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Telemarkskier



Member Since: 20 Jul 2020
Location: Wiltshire
Posts: 115

United Kingdom 
In theory there should be a test hydrogen Defender knocking around, but apart from the initial announcement, no follow up information has emerged my way. 2020 Defender 110 SE 240D: Fuji White.
2011 Freelander 2 SD4 HSE
2007 Freelander2 HSE (man)
Post #964852 13th Sep 2022 11:49am
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RDR



Member Since: 27 Apr 2018
Location: Derbyshire
Posts: 567

United Kingdom 
I kept looking at the hybrid but with the range on the low side it put me off. We have a BEV as the run about and love EV. I have a L460 phev on order which has a slightly better range so hoping to run both cars on electric for the majority.

I am hoping they upgrade the PHEV capability of the current defender to bring it in line with the sport and full fat - I would seriously consider it then. As others have said I think we need to wait for the next defender for full EV. 110 MY23.5 X Dynamic HSE
RR MY23 HSE PHEV
D5 MY19 HSE - Now Sold
D4 MY16 HSE Luxury - Now Sold
D4 MY12 HSE - Gone
D3 MY06 S - Gone but not forgotten
Post #964858 13th Sep 2022 1:05pm
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Stacey007



Member Since: 25 Sep 2015
Location: Cheshire
Posts: 3693

United Kingdom 
Hello


Your probably right... most manufactures currently are playing at the EV game, offering anything they can, but based on a old standard ICE build cars. Most are really a tax perk or get round the emission zones.

This is why Tesla as so far ahead and we see so many, it was designed from the start as an EV. I just think they look bland... The X at least has a normal dashboard (ish).

Some new stuff coming out now based on pure EV Platforms are starting to look better and I think a big change will happen in the next 3 to 5 years.

its interesting but if I'm spending a lot of money I want to try and get it right...


A college has just spent £40K on a Kia EV and I notice they have already bought a new model out.... Shocked its moving quite fast currently.
Post #964866 13th Sep 2022 1:33pm
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markb110



Member Since: 22 May 2010
Location: Guildford
Posts: 2520

England 2002 Defender 90 Td5 HT Epsom Green
At Present it does feel counter intuitive to have an ‘adventure’ vehicle that can’t be used as such due to range and the cost of recharging at anywhere that is not at home.

And if used off tarmac surely a fully electric Defender would weigh an awful lot, especially went stuck. I still remember the time it took three vehicles with winches to extract a D3 from a water hole when it bellied out at the suspension decided to go into access height.

I know it’s not quite comparable but looking at the Ford Lightning in the US there was a good example of someone towing a load from one side of the country to another. They had to stop every 100 miles to recharge. Can you imagine driving from Cornwall to Scotland with the added aggravation of disconnecting and parking up the caravan so you can get in the queue to recharge and hope that you don’t get a fine for out staying the time limit.

Going back to the Lighting, to recharge at home on a standard charger from 20% to 100% takes 19 hours! Can you image that a very large chunk of your two week touring holiday will be spent in petrol stations waiting for it to charge even if using a more expensive fast charger once the two cars in front have finished their charge.

Manufacturers and governments should have really got behind alternative fuels for existing vehicles as Porche has done in Chili. The problem at the moment is upscaling. The shear volume of petrol and diesel needed for the UK daily alone is mine blowing.

At present the Rivian SUV is the best fully electric adventure vehicle out there……but you need around $100k, and even more if they ever decided to sell it in the UK. So basically out of reach for 99.9% of current Defender owners.

And I guess we also don’t know how the additional battery weight would effect the gross vehicle weight and thus limiting what and how much you could load into and on the vehicle.

I don’t know if any of you watch Trail Recon on YouTube, well he does a lot of back country trails and camping trips in the US.He bought a Rubicon 4xe and got rid of it soon after as it just wasn’t the all rounder his petrol Rubicon and Bronco is. I think that the words used was ‘disappointing’.

A fully electric Defender will happen, just to tick a box more than anything, but at present I don’t think that it is something to get excited about.
Post #964876 13th Sep 2022 2:01pm
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Leamreject



Member Since: 19 Dec 2020
Location: Middle Earth - Leamington Spa
Posts: 954

Italy 2011 Defender 90 Puma 2.4 HT Fuji White
A vehicle of this size we might need to wait until the launch the atomic powered version, no charging for circa 28 years or 250,000 miles. And used waste plutonium in a unit shoebox size…. so surely a game changer..

If speculation is true Whistle Ride like you stole it!!
If I’m not on a bike it’s because only a 4x4 will do…
2011 2.4 Puma 90 HT
Post #964899 13th Sep 2022 5:02pm
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Rashers



Member Since: 21 Jun 2015
Location: Norfolk
Posts: 3333

United Kingdom 2014 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 USW Corris Grey
markb110 wrote:
I know it’s not quite comparable but looking at the Ford Lightning in the US there was a good example of someone towing a load from one side of the country to another. They had to stop every 100 miles to recharge. Can you imagine driving from Cornwall to Scotland with the added aggravation of disconnecting and parking up the caravan so you can get in the queue to recharge and hope that you don’t get a fine for out staying the time limit.


I see that as a positive. At least you have somewhere to wait to make a brew. We have just had an electric vehicle charging station opened in Norwich near me and it looks like a retail lesson in how to extract money out of punters waiting for their EV's to charge Laughing
Post #964917 13th Sep 2022 8:18pm
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markb110



Member Since: 22 May 2010
Location: Guildford
Posts: 2520

England 2002 Defender 90 Td5 HT Epsom Green
Funny Laughing

I was reading this afternoon just how much range can be lost on an EV when the temperature drops (winters coming and fuel bills are due to rise again), not to mention you can't even move some EV's when they run out of charge. Both of which don't sound attractive if you want a big heavy 'adventure' EV vehicle.

Oh and it's advised not to charge them for any length of time inside a garage that's attached to your house.

In Germany the fire brigade uses a sealed shipping container with the roof cut off that they fill with water and then drop the EV car into it when it has a thermal meltdown. No idea what our local fire station would do apart from handing out Smores kits.
Post #964935 13th Sep 2022 10:44pm
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pjm-84



Member Since: 12 Apr 2021
Location: Hampshire
Posts: 639

United Kingdom 
Yep 7.5p a kWh charging cost. You need to own an EV to benefit from the tariff. BMW is circa 2.5miles per kWh so about 102kwh to one gallon of fuel. So around 255mpg. However I have PVs and installing some storage batteries tomorrow. I find that 90% of what I generate goes back into the grid for which I receive very little for.



Quote:
How often do they occur?

Although these fires do present a real danger, fortunately for us they remain very rare.

Data obtained by Air Quality News through a Freedom of Information (FOI) request revealed that in 2019 the London Fire Brigade dealt with just 54 electric vehicle fires compared to 1,898 petrol and diesel fires.

Similarly, so far in 2020, the fire services have dealt with 1,021 petrol and diesel fires and just 27 electric vehicle fires.
Post #964940 13th Sep 2022 11:42pm
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markb110



Member Since: 22 May 2010
Location: Guildford
Posts: 2520

England 2002 Defender 90 Td5 HT Epsom Green
Rashers wrote:
markb110 wrote:
I know it’s not quite comparable but looking at the Ford Lightning in the US there was a good example of someone towing a load from one side of the country to another. They had to stop every 100 miles to recharge. Can you imagine driving from Cornwall to Scotland with the added aggravation of disconnecting and parking up the caravan so you can get in the queue to recharge and hope that you don’t get a fine for out staying the time limit.


I see that as a positive. At least you have somewhere to wait to make a brew. We have just had an electric vehicle charging station opened in Norwich near me and it looks like a retail lesson in how to extract money out of punters waiting for their EV's to charge Laughing



This made me smile recently. A couple of Sundays ago it was our anniversary so we had booked to go to a pub for lunch.

I pulled into our local shell garage to fill up the wife’s Velar and whilst doing so looked across at the guy sitting in his EV reading his book whilst it was charging. I then walked into pay, and as I got back into the car to leave he was still sitting there reading his book. That’s his Sunday.

So this begs the question, is remote EV charging the new ‘the in-laws are coming over, I just need to walk the dog’ excuse for peace and quiet…… Whistle
Post #964949 14th Sep 2022 6:39am
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markb110



Member Since: 22 May 2010
Location: Guildford
Posts: 2520

England 2002 Defender 90 Td5 HT Epsom Green
A quick point when it comes to numbers as in the quote regarding fires.

They actually run courses (the wife has been on one that involved a number of high profile business’s) on how to manipulate and present figures for the purpose of the writer and not the individual reading it.

For example we are normal presented with percentages because on the whole that shows a higher number but does not say how many items where tested or people asked on a survey. A German shampoo advert a few years back had the presenter saying that more than 50% of people asked said they would recommend the product. In the small print the actual percentage was 51. So basically almost 50% of people would not recommend (or had no opinion or knowledge too recommend)

With the 2020 fire figures they have used numbers because if they used percentages as there were and are still more ICE vehicles than Electric on the road. Therefore EV fires would be a much higher percentage than ICE.

From a marketing perspective it looks better than saying ‘drive to work in a an EV…….but make sure that you have cash in case you need to take the bus home…..’

When I used to work with marketing people in the past they regarded a 2% take up as a success of the campaign they were running……it’s all how numbers are presented for the gain of the writer.
Post #964958 14th Sep 2022 8:40am
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Tim in Scotland



Member Since: 23 May 2007
Location: The Land that time forgot
Posts: 3750

 
Having driven an IPace off-road on a tank driver training ground on a dealer day an EV Defender cannot come soon enough. The problem will be electric consumption off-road. My experience with 9 months with an all electric Mini is that the consumption does increase on wet roads but that might be due to the Mini putting out 181bhp and 220nM of torque through the front wheels and despite a very good traction control system can still light up its front tyres on a damp surface Pangea Green D250 90 HSE with Air Suspension, Off-road Pack, Towing Pack, Black Contrast roof , rear recovery eyes, Front bash plate, Classic flaps all round, extended wheel arch kit and a few bits from PowerfulUK Expel Clear Gloss PPF to come
2020 D240 1st Edition in Pangea Green with Acorn interior. Now gone - old faithful, no mechanical issues whatsoever ever but the leaks and rattles all over the place won’t be missed!
Post #964961 14th Sep 2022 8:57am
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pjm-84



Member Since: 12 Apr 2021
Location: Hampshire
Posts: 639

United Kingdom 
markb110 wrote:
A quick point when it comes to numbers as in the quote regarding fires.

They actually run courses (the wife has been on one that involved a number of high profile business’s) on how to manipulate and present figures for the purpose of the writer and not the individual reading it.

For example we are normal presented with percentages because on the whole that shows a higher number but does not say how many items where tested or people asked on a survey. A German shampoo advert a few years back had the presenter saying that more than 50% of people asked said they would recommend the product. In the small print the actual percentage was 51. So basically almost 50% of people would not recommend (or had no opinion or knowledge too recommend)

With the 2020 fire figures they have used numbers because if they used percentages as there were and are still more ICE vehicles than Electric on the road. Therefore EV fires would be a much higher percentage than ICE.

From a marketing perspective it looks better than saying ‘drive to work in a an EV…….but make sure that you have cash in case you need to take the bus home…..’

When I used to work with marketing people in the past they regarded a 2% take up as a success of the campaign they were running……it’s all how numbers are presented for the gain of the writer.


Agree but at the end of the day in this instance its actual numbers and not percentages. Diversity would also apply otherwise if you had 4 EVs on the road and 1 caught fire you couldnt then say that 25% of them will catch fire.

An EV needs to work for you.

I have an ID3 pool company car. Its probably on 38k miles in a little over 21months. Never missed a beat or hasn't caught fire. Charging is free 90% of the time. It regularly does 250mile trips (hence the mileage).

A big EV would have worked for me but the Wife refuses to buy anything from that man and I have two dogs. Hence the BMW Hybrid.
Post #964991 14th Sep 2022 11:49am
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