 | Home > Puma (Tdci) > 2.4 clutch replacement - what else to get done? |
 
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| Ads90 Member Since: 16 Jun 2008 Location: Cots-on-the-Wolds Posts: 800   
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What are the symptoms of impending doom?
I'm asking because mine has started a rattling sound when stationary in neutral with clutch engaged (sound stops when I depress the clutch), and I fear it's clutch related!? |
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30th Jun 2022 12:18pm |
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| Honeyman Member Since: 02 May 2022 Location: Haarlemmermeer Posts: 58  
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Hi Ads,
Basically, exactly what you describe (sorry!). From what I understand, it is the springs that come loose in the clutch plate (common on the original clutches apparently) and rattle about rather than being held firm under their own expansion. They take a set. If one of the springs actually comes fully loose or moves sufficiently to hit the flywheel or cover plate then it can get messy (clutch failure & other damage). I’ve read of people driving for a very long time with the rattle and no problems but also of cases where it goes bang quite quickly. Rattling can also cause further wear so it doesn’t get any better on its own With mine, it is getting noticeably worse (in terms of volume and how often it happens), particularly over the last 1k km or so. With a trip planned for September and this being my main vehicle, I need to sort it out for my own sanity (and to reduce the embarrassment factor when stood at the lights… it’s getting loud!). It it hadn’t been getting worse, I may have put up with it for a bit longer. 2011MY 130 HCPU: daily driver 1979MY RRC 2-door: on the drive, in the garage & in a shed - all at the same time. |
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30th Jun 2022 12:46pm |
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| Ads90 Member Since: 16 Jun 2008 Location: Cots-on-the-Wolds Posts: 800
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Oooh.
 Thanks for your comprehensive reply!
I can imagine it does sound like one of those springs rattling around. Is there a cheap solution - i.e. replace just the spring? Or (I'm guessing) it might not be worth the labour to get to the clutch without dropping another one in whilst there? Mine's a 2007 but only on 81K miles - might have hoped for a bit more life out the clutch yet. Edit to say I just noticed you've only done 50K miles! |
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30th Jun 2022 2:29pm |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 16895 
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It's unlikely that an '07 with 81k on the çlock is still on its original clutch, my '07 was getting number 4 by about that mileage. The early Puma clutches were very, very bad.
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30th Jun 2022 2:49pm |
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| Honeyman Member Since: 02 May 2022 Location: Haarlemmermeer Posts: 58
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the best solution is replace the clutch - repairing a clutch plate doesn’t bring much (the plate itself may be a contributor to the problem FAIK) even if possible (which I’m not sure about). As you say, labour costs dominate, and once you are in there what else do you do to avoid the potential of having to pay again if something else goes phut - hence my original question.
The clutch plate isn’t wearing as such - it was just a crappy part from the factory - so yes, I’d have hoped for substantially more mileage. To be clear, I could put up with a bit of rattle: it’s the way it seems to be getting worse over a short period of time that is pushing for me to get it replaced ASAP. Others here may have more experience in how far you can push it. The labour costs for this job (for me in the Netherlands) are seriously eating into my “goodies” budget - that and the dearth of Indy LR specialists close to home may mean I do the job myself in the end. 2011MY 130 HCPU: daily driver 1979MY RRC 2-door: on the drive, in the garage & in a shed - all at the same time. |
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30th Jun 2022 2:57pm |
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| Ads90 Member Since: 16 Jun 2008 Location: Cots-on-the-Wolds Posts: 800
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Pretty sure it's original - I purchased it at 1.5 years old with 23K miles and I don't remember a clutch in the service history (I would have queried that if there was). |
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30th Jun 2022 3:16pm |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 16895
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In that case I am not surprised it is rattling!
The usual rattle test is to switch off the engine with the gearbox in neutral and the clutch in, If the springs are taking on a permanent set you will hear them rattle as the engine stops. From your description yours may be past this point. The risk when they get like this is that a spring can fall out of the driven plate and destroy the flywheel and or clutch cover. Early clutches were extremely bad and useless, but by the time production finished in 2016 they were becoming almost acceptable. Many discerning owners now fit alternatives, LOF is liked by many, but the Transit 4x4 clutch is a popular alternative. |
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30th Jun 2022 5:37pm |
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| custom90 Member Since: 21 Jan 2010 Location: South West, England. Posts: 19611
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As Blackwolf said - on mine I had it since only 13k which would have been original clutch.
It went around 42k. 
First time around suspected slave failure, pinhole leak in diaphragm. Clutch changed for Genuine regardless and slave, Flywheel fine and intermediate shaft original and re-greased original refitted. Mines now at 88k and gone again, suspected spring came out or slave failure or both yet to be confirmed in due course. I have the Transit 4x4 clutch ready to go in and the updated 2.2 slave and associated parts to go in. At the minimum you’ll need a new clutch and slave, flywheel replacement is possible depending on condition so I’m going to get one of those in case. Again the same applies to the intermediate shaft, if it’s in good condition I’d tend to leave it and re-grease. I’m intending to get the flywheel and intermediate shaft in case they are needed anyway, if they aren’t then I will keep them until they will be which one day they will. I did change the Master Cylinder on mine for a genuine replacement as it was due it’s no loss, but didn’t change anything with the clutch but I’m pleased I changed it anyway. The Slaves failing seems to be common, and most people just change the clutch with it and assume it is the clutch. There’s not really any point in not changing these two parts together as to get maximum life you want these two both brand new. So far I’ve not actually ever worn a friction plate out. (Which wouldn’t be good anyway). To investigate it’s all got to come out anyway and it will then simply mean a slave and clutch change at the minimum. If you are lucky the flywheel will be fine but it can’t be taken for granted. Noises when the clutch is put down is bad news (slave release bearing). That’s how mine started and then got worse defiantly no more than a couple of hundred miles later. I suppose the fingers on the clutch can get bent too, these things happen but I’m not impressed with the Genuine clutch, not even the latest versions. I think the 2014 version lasted about just 6 k miles more than the original 2007 factory clutch so I’d hardly say that’s a great improvement. Diesel$ Live$ Matter. ⛽️🛢️👨🔧🧰⚙️ RED, WHITE & BOOST! 🇬🇧 |
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30th Jun 2022 9:55pm |
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| piechipsandpeas Member Since: 12 May 2021 Location: Albany, Western Australia Posts: 168  
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Also consider renewing the transfer case and gearbox mounting bushes (fairly inexpensive items) as they will be removed as part of the work to replace the clutch.[/i]
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1st Jul 2022 8:45am |
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| Ads90 Member Since: 16 Jun 2008 Location: Cots-on-the-Wolds Posts: 800
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Honeyman - sounds like I'm in the same boat as you then!
You say you've got the LOF clutch kit - did you go with the Power, Extreme or Road spec? I don't do heavy towing or have a remap (although I might go for a mild map in future), which one to go for? And you've gone for the Ashcroft output shaft - any reason over the LOF Extreme shaft? I tend to agree with the idea of getting one before dismantling, just in case. The mount bushes also sound like a good idea then. |
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1st Jul 2022 9:06am |
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| Honeyman Member Since: 02 May 2022 Location: Haarlemmermeer Posts: 58
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Good call - thanks for that. 2011MY 130 HCPU: daily driver 1979MY RRC 2-door: on the drive, in the garage & in a shed - all at the same time. |
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1st Jul 2022 9:39am |
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| Honeyman Member Since: 02 May 2022 Location: Haarlemmermeer Posts: 58
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I went for the Power spec - mainly because the vehicle is a 130 and whilst I don’t often fully load it (I move bulk rather than weight) and currently only tow a relatively light trailer, that may change in the future. The vehicle doesn’t have a tune (and will only get a moderate one at some stage) so no need for the extreme spec. For the output shaft - there are 2 main reasons for the Ashcroft over the LOF for me (your mileage may vary!). Firstly cost: the Ashcroft is significantly cheaper for me here than the LOF. Secondly design: I’m a firm believer that the premature failure of the original setup is due not only to a of lack of lubrication but that there may also be misalignment between the main and transfer gearboxes via the extension housing. If the misalignment is severe enough and the output shaft is robustly solid, then the resultant forces will break something else rather than the shaft. This is a small factor for me - without getting creative with the dial gauges and measuring the drive train, it’s theoretical. Mostly it’s about cost. If the original shaft is well greased and not showing any fretting/wear of the splines, I may just clean, re grease and refit and keep the replacement for the next clutch change down the line. The more I think of this job, the more I think I’ll do it myself, just to see what is really going on at first hand. 2011MY 130 HCPU: daily driver 1979MY RRC 2-door: on the drive, in the garage & in a shed - all at the same time. |
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1st Jul 2022 10:06am |
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| Ads90 Member Since: 16 Jun 2008 Location: Cots-on-the-Wolds Posts: 800
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Thanks for that.
I was coming to a similar conclusion re. misalignment after reading other threads. It may be that mine's fairly straight, although I do have a fair bit of slack in the drivetrain. I might look at one piece half shafts for the rear axle too. |
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1st Jul 2022 10:28am |
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| Honeyman Member Since: 02 May 2022 Location: Haarlemmermeer Posts: 58
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Drivetrain slack is a whole other can of worms on a Puma! My plan is sell a kidney and get ATB diffs front/rear and centre - but getting that past the financial oversight committee might be an issue right now.
2011MY 130 HCPU: daily driver
1979MY RRC 2-door: on the drive, in the garage & in a shed - all at the same time. |
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1st Jul 2022 12:30pm |
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