 | Home > Puma (Tdci) > Clutch slip or something else ? |
 
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| Bluericky Member Since: 26 Jun 2014 Location: Cornwall Posts: 647   
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Hi all
Yesterday I was merrily driving along, down some country lanes when the 130 began to slow and would barely accelerate , I was perhaps doing 30mph on a relatively gentle incline in 3rd gear, I dropped to second and planted my foot on the accelerator, still nothing and the revs would barely go above 1500rpm , I immediately pulled over and there was that strong smell of burning clutch . I switched the engine off, had a poke around for 10 mins, got back in and drove a further mile with similar results, occasionally it would pick up as expected, other times it wouldn't. Dumping the clutch would allow the engine to rev freely as normal , no smoke, no strange sounds, no more clutch smell. Today it did exactly the same but I didn't dare drive it far or up any serious inclines. I'm a bit baffled as if it was the clutch wouldn't I be able to slip the clutch and rev the engine when in gear or is there some clever electrickery that prevents this from happening on the puma ? Any thoughts most welcome ! Thank you Rich https://www.instagram.com/hustynminepark/ |
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29th Mar 2022 12:43am |
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| Co1 Member Since: 19 Aug 2018 Location: North Yorkshire Posts: 3618 
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When mine has gone into limp mode in the past it restricts the RPM when the clutch is out, but when you bring it in (ie disengage the gearbox) it allows it to rev freely. It could be that something else is causing it to go into limp mode. Have you got a diagnostics tool?
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29th Mar 2022 6:08am |
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| Bluericky Member Since: 26 Jun 2014 Location: Cornwall Posts: 647
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Thank you Stew, I’ve got a LOF Clutch in the 110 and I agree it’s money well spent.
There appears to be the tiniest weep of clutch fluid from the pedal box but it’s still pretty much full to the brim. I’ve got a diagnostic tool and it throws up nothing, there's no engine light either. Also if it were limp mode, presumably it would stay in it, rather than go on and off over a mile or two. Could this be a sticky turbo actuator or clutch sensor issue ? https://www.instagram.com/hustynminepark/ |
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29th Mar 2022 7:10am |
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| stew 46 Member Since: 26 Jan 2012 Location: Wadebridge ,cornwall . Posts: 561  
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I called the rac out and they confirmed my thought it was the slave and as I’ve got rac home everything they then sorted recovery to my preferred garage
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29th Mar 2022 7:15am |
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| Bluericky Member Since: 26 Jun 2014 Location: Cornwall Posts: 647
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That’s interesting, I’m also a member, I hadn’t thought of that !
How did the diagnose the slave, I thought it was in the bell housing ? https://www.instagram.com/hustynminepark/ |
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29th Mar 2022 7:45am |
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| landy andy Member Since: 15 Feb 2009 Location: Ware, Herts Posts: 5425 
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It sounds more like brakes stuck on to me. If slipping clutch the revs would increase, as would the speed but slower than the revs. It would also be reving freely not limited to 1500. It could be a wheel bearing allowing disc to rub brake pads.
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29th Mar 2022 8:01am |
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| Angus_Beef Member Since: 30 Apr 2015 Location: Oslo Posts: 434  
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Also possibly the parking brake grabbing Roaming around 🇳🇴🇨🇭
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29th Mar 2022 8:12am |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 16917 
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You don't say in your post if the engine would rev normally with the clutch out. **EDIT - yes you do, so I have edited my comments below.**
If the clutch was slipping the engine speed will be higher than you would expect with a good clutch, and will be inconsistent, and you don't say that this is happening. Since the engine revved freely with the clutch out it is very unlikely to be a clutch problem and is more likely to be a dragging brake (which would account for the smell), or possibly a boost problem (which would not account for the smell). Note that with no load on the engine it will rev freely even if the turbo actualtor is not moving since the lack of load means that no boost is required. You say that there are no stored DTCs in the ECM, but it is possible but very unlikely that it is going into limp mode and resetting with an ignition cycle. It is unlikely that it would rev freely with the clutch out if it is in limp mode, so this can probably be ruled out. It is possible that the clutch switch is sticking open circuit, you could try shorting it out and going for a drive (shorting it out on a Puma should not materially alter the running of the engine since it is NC and there are some people who recommend it, on a TD5 the switch is NO and the same effect can be achieved by unplugging it). There is no "clutch sensor" per se, only the switch. If the switch is o/c the ECM will think that you have the clutch pedal depressed and the clutch out and this could cause issues. It could well be an actuator problem since if there turbo is not spooling up you will find the engine has astonishingly little power (been there, done that!). If your diagnostic tool can display a real-time read-out of manifold pressure you will see if the actuator is working, should should get an absolute manifold pressure in the region of 2bar with the engine under load. This would not explain the smell. Last edited by blackwolf on 29th Mar 2022 9:53am. Edited 1 time in total |
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29th Mar 2022 8:14am |
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| Will.I.AM Member Since: 16 May 2013 Location: Hertfordshire Posts: 342 
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seized caliper? - if the clutch has gone it would rev up regardless.
also some brake pads do smell like clutch.... |
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29th Mar 2022 8:34am |
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| stew 46 Member Since: 26 Jan 2012 Location: Wadebridge ,cornwall . Posts: 561
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The rac chap spent a good 30 mins under the landy with it jacked up checking everything and was very thorough ( same chap has visited many of my landys over the years  ) but I pay me money and use the service when needed  .
My clutch seemed very intermittent over a few weeks then I couldn’t get it in gear without a struggle , when it was in gear it was ok but the few weeks beforehand it just didn’t feel right . My 3 tone ramp in my unit is free to use Rich if you want a better look under it
Stew  Click image to enlarge |
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29th Mar 2022 8:55am |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 16917
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That is consistent with a failing hydraulic system since it is symptomatic of the clutch not disengaging fully, in other words "clutch spin" not "clutch slip" which is what the OP was suspecting. Nothing in the OP's description points to spin on this occasion (mind you I can't see anything pointing to slip, either). You RAC man's diagnosis is very logical for that particular symptom. I have edited my earlier reply since I notice that you did say that the engine revs freely with the clutch out, a statement which I inexplicably missed when I first replied and which changes my earlier comments somewhat. I'd be looking for a dragging brake as the most probable cause, and a turbo actuator fault as the second most likely. |
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29th Mar 2022 9:47am |
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| Bluericky Member Since: 26 Jun 2014 Location: Cornwall Posts: 647
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Stew, thank you very much for the offer of your ramp, I may well take you up on it.
Blackwolf thank you also for your comments, I’ll be checking the turbo and brakes tomorrow and see what’s it throws up. The smell was the most confusing thing as it almost certainly smelt like a burning clutch but I suppose it could equally have been brakes . Recently there has been a resonating vibration that’s got progressively more noticeable, particularly noticeable at the high end of the gear range. It may be connected. I will report back https://www.instagram.com/hustynminepark/ |
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29th Mar 2022 8:08pm |
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| custom90 Member Since: 21 Jan 2010 Location: South West, England. Posts: 19624
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How many miles has the clutch done?
I’ve got issues with mine currently too, I’m going to try changing the Master cylinder first and already ruled out air in the hydraulic line after bleeding it. The slaves going are surprisingly common, the annoyance is what comes with it and the work involved and cost. The smell is probably the clutch friction plate slipping maybe partially or along the lines of what Blackwolf mentioned. Difficulty selecting gears is what I have when warmed up and will only get worse and no gear at all. So I’m trying the MC as it’s half the age of the slave and clutch on mine but if that doesn’t do the trick I’m gonna need to get the slave done as well. I’m hoping it maybe the MC and buy a bit of time for me before doing the other but I’m 50/50 as to whether it will work out. Was there any signs of leaks on the bell housing? Diesel$ Live$ Matter. ⛽️🛢️👨🔧🧰⚙️ RED, WHITE & BOOST! 🇬🇧 |
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29th Mar 2022 8:53pm |
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| Ianh Member Since: 17 Sep 2018 Location: Essex Posts: 1792
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As BW and others have stated, extremely likely sticking brake pistons. You apply brake on journey, it does not fully release, heat builds up on disc and it expands, brake binds even more, everything in area gets real hot and you smell burning and the truck feels like it’s towing an artic. Initially you can lift each axle on stands and feel if any wheel is binding. If not then gently applying brake and release retesting rotational friction to feel changes. If no results then sharply applying brake and release to retest rotational friction. From this you should identify which calliper is binding
However if driving to test, stop after applying brakes and feeling truck slowing down have a sniff of each wheel, and put hand close but do not touch wheel to feel any heat. If can’t feel heat touch wheel very cautiously to feel if it’s hot, be careful as if it is it can be very hot. That will identify which calliper is binding. |
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29th Mar 2022 9:05pm |
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