 | Home > Technical > Diff failure caught just in time ! |
 
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| Angus_Beef Member Since: 30 Apr 2015 Location: Oslo Posts: 434   
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That’s brutal. Makes me want to go Ashcroft atb in all three. Good luck, and I wish you the best. Roaming around 🇳🇴🇨🇭 |
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23rd Jun 2021 9:47pm |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 16871  
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Surely by now you've realised that classic defenders don't get recalled, ever?
The front diff fails in a manner likely to cause the fron axle to lock up - no recall. The output adaptor shaft fails causing total loss of drive - no recall. On the early TDCi, the front propshaft can make a hole in the sump causing complete engine failure - no recall. Again on the early TDCi, the piston cooling jets fail causing complete engine failure - no recall. Later TDCi, the oil pump fails leading to complete engine failure - no recall. There are probaby other well-known dangerous faults I can't remember, but to the best of my recollection the half-hearted recall for the breaking axle is the only actual recall on the Defender. There have admittedly been defects that dealers have been instructed inspect and rectify when the vehicle is serviced, or rectify if the customer asks to have them rectified, but for this to happen you have to have dealer servicing or know that the defect is there to ask. The sump was an example of the latter, it would be replaced free if you asked, but you had to know there was a problem in order to ask! Compare this with the numerous recalls, often for relatively insignificant things, on the other vehicles from LR. It is very inexplicable. The front axle weld failure service instuction is a masterpiece of comic writing, it states something along the lines than having the entire front nearside swivel hub assembly complete with wheel, brake etc part company with the axle tube "may result in the driver have reduced control of the vehicle" or some very similar form of words. Nothing about a painful premature death in a fireball! Here is a picture of the Landrover Defender warranty/recall team at work 
(Image from link used under Creative Commons Media licence). |
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24th Jun 2021 9:26am |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 16871
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This was mine (2007 110) after the same failure. Fortunately it locked the diff not the axle, I was a mile from home and the roads were extremely wet, so I was able - very carefully - to drive home.
It's not easy to steer on tarmac with no differential action at all in the front axle, and the effect at the moment of failure was exactly as though the steering had locked solid. Had I been driving at moderate speed approaching a bend in a populated area it could have easily caused fatalities. Not that it is exactly the same failure mechanism as always; the hole has elongated, the pin has come loose, in this case the pin has actually sheared into two pieces, one of the differential gears has as a result become completely unconstrained, and the broken pin fragment and gear have crunched into and locked the side gears. Surprisingly the pinion and crownwheel were undamaged allowing an Ashcroft ATB to be built up in the original pinion housing. Click image to enlarge Click image to enlarge |
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24th Jun 2021 9:34am |
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| Bluest Member Since: 23 Apr 2016 Location: Lancashire Posts: 3997 
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Is it possible to see the condition of the pin by peering through the drain or fill plug? Just trying to think of a way to do a quick check without pulling the diff. 2007 110 TDCi Station Wagon XS
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24th Jun 2021 10:07am |
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| Bluericky Member Since: 26 Jun 2014 Location: Cornwall Posts: 647 
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You can glimpse a few bits but I would say if there’s nothing obvious it’s worthwhile pulling the drain plug and swilling around a magnet in the diff oil .
I would expect some very fine paste like particles but anything more than that and I’d be suspicious. Reinstall with a magnetic drain plug for future inspections ! https://www.instagram.com/hustynminepark/ |
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24th Jun 2021 10:13am |
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| landy andy Member Since: 15 Feb 2009 Location: Ware, Herts Posts: 5417 
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Yes. Jack the front up and remove filler cap, then turn one wheel looking with a torch looking for the shiny pin. Or find out if you are two pin or four pin. |
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24th Jun 2021 12:47pm |
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| landy andy Member Since: 15 Feb 2009 Location: Ware, Herts Posts: 5417
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Found my “failure about to happen” on my old 10 reg 110 tdci that way. As mentioned you get knock when coming of the power. So when your coasting. Apply power one clonk, then ok, brake one clonk ok. Coast is between so clonk clonk.
Click image to enlarge Click image to enlarge But I’ve just swapped out my 110 Td5 diff, 2 pin at over a hundred thousand miles, and it’s in perfect condition. |
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24th Jun 2021 12:53pm |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 16871
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It is curious that a driveline the withstands the TD5 without trouble is so prone to self-destruction in the TDCi. My personal theory is that the fact that the four-cylinder TDCi is markedly less smooth-running than the five-cylinder TD5, coupled with the much greater low-end torque of the the TDCi, results in a sort of Brinelling effect on many of the bearing surfaces. I think this is why the drive flanges fail, and why the front diff fails so readily.
As noted you don't hear of these failures in the TD5, but they are very commonplace in the TDCi. |
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24th Jun 2021 1:33pm |
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| boxoftricks Member Since: 06 Feb 2019 Location: Home Counties Posts: 745
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So based on the above it's a fair assumption that a 2010 tdci will have a two-pin diff? Mine is coming up to the 100k mark so trying to figure out what to replace/service etc
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24th Jun 2021 2:03pm |
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| landy andy Member Since: 15 Feb 2009 Location: Ware, Herts Posts: 5417
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Check through your filler hole, and you will soon know what diff you have. If you see some big bits of metal occasionally then you have a 2 pin diff, if you see big bits of metal all the time you have a 4 pin diff.
Also changing sooner rather than later saves money as crown and pinion can be used, and makes it a DIY job. |
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24th Jun 2021 2:16pm |
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| Jamie W Member Since: 28 Mar 2012 Location: Herts Posts: 30 
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Just replaced my rear diff, due to some strange metallic rubbing noise when overun/coasting.
This has come off a 08 90 with 33000 miles no heavy off roading or heavy towing. Pretty poor from LR. Click image to enlarge Click image to enlarge |
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28th Jun 2021 9:35pm |
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| Dinnu Member Since: 24 Dec 2019 Location: Lija Posts: 3204  
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The Td5, when remapped, is capable of developing much more low end torque than a tdci.
But the Td5 has overlapping power strokes and a DMF which smoothens the torque on the driveline. So it happens in 90s as well. Perhaps 110s are more heavily used than the 90s which explains more failures on 110s. I always assumed that these failures are caused by excessive wheel spin, example on cross axles situations. Most know that the center diff would disintegrate in a few seconds if unlocked and left to spin one prop only, given that it also spins at 3.54 times the axle diffs (and double that if only one prop is spinning). 1988 90 Hard Top, 19J Diesel Turbo, Shire Blue - Restoration ongoing 2012 90 CSW, 2.2TDCI, Santorini Black |
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29th Jun 2021 5:58am |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 16871
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That's the first 90 rear that I've seen failing in this way, but I am sure it has happened before and will again.
Agree that a highly-tuned TD5 can outgun a standard TDCi in low end torque (but not I suspect a similarly tuned TDCi) but as you correctly observe the 5-cylinder is a much smoother engine than the rougher 4-cylinder. I have always been convinced that it is the relatively rough cycle at high torque of the TDCi that does most of the driveline damage, effectively all the loaded surfaces in the driveline (such as splines and diff pins) are constantly being Brinelled to destruction. Longevity is very much in the hands of the driver. Sympathetically driven they'll last well, driven aggressively they probably won't (ie if it is driven like a generic modern SUV - for that you need the new Defender)! I can assure you that wheelspin didn't play the slightest part in the destruction of my front diff, since I hardly ever spin my wheels, even off-road, since it is an extremely ineffectual way to drive! |
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29th Jun 2021 8:47am |
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| BogMonster Member Since: 05 Feb 2008 Location: Stanley Posts: 389  
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Mine being one of them  ---
2006 Defender 110 SW 300Tdi • 2011 Ford Ranger XLT crewcab • 2015 Defender 110 Station Wagon Utility TDCi |
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29th Jun 2021 10:58am |
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