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Muddybigdog



Member Since: 11 Apr 2014
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How clean is an electric car?
Interesting report from Drax on electric vehicles and how long it can take to repay the upfront carbon costs of EV batteries.

https://www.drax.com/opinion/how-clean-is-my-electric-car/ Jumped ship to reliability - Mitsubishi L200
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Post #928032 1st Nov 2021 9:22am
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Tim in Scotland



Member Since: 23 May 2007
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No mention of the CO2 emitted transporting new EV’s made in Asia/USA all round the world on fossil fuel burning car carrying ships or the CO2 emitted flying some of their parts around the world too from China to the place of assembly. Pangea Green D250 90 HSE with Air Suspension, Off-road Pack, Towing Pack, Black Contrast roof , rear recovery eyes, Front bash plate, Classic flaps all round, extended wheel arch kit and a few bits from PowerfulUK Expel Clear Gloss PPF to come
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Post #928056 1st Nov 2021 11:49am
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Lodelaner



Member Since: 04 Feb 2010
Location: Lambourn
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Re: How clean is an electric car?
Really interesting report, thanks for sharing. Even with upfront carbon 'loading' from production an electric car is cleaner and will continue to get cleaner as electricity production continues to be decarbonised.

Quote:
Manufacturing a kWh of battery capacity is the equivalent to the CO2 emitted by burning a tank of fuel.


But, instead of simplistically thinking that EV is the answer, surely we should also need to start producing hydrogen from renewables PDQ. I see that JCB just signed a contract to buy renewably-sourced Hydrogen from Australia, for it to be shipped across the globe Shocked

I hope that COP26 creates enough awareness to overcome the reluctance to push through the constrictions on national planning issues.

With the environmental lobby blocking every Severn tidal power project (that could produce the equivalent of 3 nuclear power stations day in, day out with balancing from pumped-storage or hydrogen turbines or fuel cells) I'm a totally perplexed about the UK's approach to energy security and renewables. Surely we could have reliable renewable energy and make thousands of tonnes of hydrogen with any excess production - effectively storing energy for all forms of road transport and plant machinery? JB

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Post #928067 1st Nov 2021 12:39pm
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90 Dreamer



Member Since: 13 Jul 2019
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Does it depend on which 'hand wash' you take it to.......... Cool
Post #928144 1st Nov 2021 10:26pm
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lohr500



Member Since: 14 Sep 2014
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@Lodelaner Agree, it does seem crazy that we aren't exploiting the tidal ranges around the UK when we are an island with such a difference between low and high tides across the nation.
Post #928149 1st Nov 2021 10:58pm
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Zed



Member Since: 07 Oct 2017
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Re: How clean is an electric car?
Lodelaner wrote:
Really interesting report, thanks for sharing. Even with upfront carbon 'loading' from production an electric car is cleaner and will continue to get cleaner as electricity production continues to be decarbonised.

Quote:
Manufacturing a kWh of battery capacity is the equivalent to the CO2 emitted by burning a tank of fuel.


But, instead of simplistically thinking that EV is the answer, surely we should also need to start producing hydrogen from renewables PDQ. I see that JCB just signed a contract to buy renewably-sourced Hydrogen from Australia, for it to be shipped across the globe Shocked

I hope that COP26 creates enough awareness to overcome the reluctance to push through the constrictions on national planning issues.

With the environmental lobby blocking every Severn tidal power project (that could produce the equivalent of 3 nuclear power stations day in, day out with balancing from pumped-storage or hydrogen turbines or fuel cells) I'm a totally perplexed about the UK's approach to energy security and renewables. Surely we could have reliable renewable energy and make thousands of tonnes of hydrogen with any excess production - effectively storing energy for all forms of road transport and plant machinery?


The government vitoed the plan based on a feasibility study. i can't do a link but if you Google Severn Tidal Power Gov uk the PDF is available on the .gov website. There are some concerns about damage to the environment but it looks like the cost/benefit doesn't make sense at this time. WARNING.
This post may contain sarcasm.
Post #928152 1st Nov 2021 11:08pm
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Lodelaner



Member Since: 04 Feb 2010
Location: Lambourn
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I’ve read it. 5 solutions were considered ranging from £7 billion to £34billion.

The summary is that “The costs and risks for the taxpayer and energy consumer would be excessive compared to other low-carbon energy options. Furthermore, regulatory barriers create uncertainties that would add to the cost and risk of construction. The Government believes that other options, such as the expansion of wind energy, carbon capture and storage and nuclear power without public subsidy, represent a better deal for taxpayers and consumers at this time.”

However they didn’t rule out the viability of a private scheme - and bearing in mind that Hinckley Point C is currently running at £22billion and Sizewell C is likely to cost similar if commissioned with a life span of 60years (vs barrage having a span of 120 years) I think the conclusions should be seen through a different lens now. JB

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Last edited by Lodelaner on 1st Nov 2021 11:35pm. Edited 1 time in total
Post #928154 1st Nov 2021 11:21pm
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Zed



Member Since: 07 Oct 2017
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I tend to agree. After reading, it looks like more government short sightedness. They've just kicked it down the road and instead given Chinese state owned companies billions to build our nuclear power stations.

What could possibly go wrong??? WARNING.
This post may contain sarcasm.
Post #928155 1st Nov 2021 11:34pm
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Lodelaner



Member Since: 04 Feb 2010
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Lol Very Happy JB

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Post #928157 1st Nov 2021 11:37pm
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markb110



Member Since: 22 May 2010
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Zed wrote:
I tend to agree. After reading, it looks like more government short sightedness. They've just kicked it down the road and instead given Chinese state owned companies billions to build our nuclear power stations.

What could possibly go wrong???


Not to mention that we are a small island, continually having houses built on is so where do you bury the spent radioactive rods that will take 300 years to become safe.

There’s a housing development near Reading that can’t have open fires or BBQ’s due to leaking radon gas.

Neutral
Post #928160 2nd Nov 2021 3:43am
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pjm-84



Member Since: 12 Apr 2021
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Tim in Scotland wrote:
No mention of the CO2 emitted transporting new EV’s made in Asia/USA all round the world on fossil fuel burning car carrying ships or the CO2 emitted flying some of their parts around the world too from China to the place of assembly.


The same transportation that also carries petrol / diesel powered cars? or parts that follow the same transports routes. More parts in a petrol / diesel powered vehicle as well. Thumbs Up
Post #928168 2nd Nov 2021 8:32am
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RobKeay



Member Since: 19 Jul 2009
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Also the creation of petrol and diesel, how energy intense is that. People always go on about the energy and the fossil fuels used for electric. But how much energy/co2 (or any other nasty chemicals) go into the ground or the atmosphere. Natural disasters when the front falls off a ship and tons of crude oil pour out.

At work I’ve increasing brought battery kit. We have solar to charge so pretty clean. But one big factor is not having the risk of spilling fuel.

I’ll happily convert the 110’s engine to electric when that one goes pop. Not as if the 2.2 is a nice sounding engine.
Post #928172 2nd Nov 2021 9:19am
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pjm-84



Member Since: 12 Apr 2021
Location: Hampshire
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Yep, having "done" the first petrol station for Safeway back in 1992 and a few more to boot, there is quite a bit of equipment involved within the construction.... just saying.

And the ASDA brothers didn't come up with the concept of fuel and food / shopping at petrol stations Thumbs Up
Post #928176 2nd Nov 2021 9:49am
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RobKeay



Member Since: 19 Jul 2009
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Having a quick Google it takes 5-9 kWh per gallon to refine fuel. Then you need transport it using more fuel and pump it into the car using more electric.

That’s enough electric for for an electric car to do about 30 miles.

So if we don’t refine fuel there would be a fair amount of electric not being used. So this thread has certainly made me think.
Post #928183 2nd Nov 2021 10:21am
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LandRoverAnorak



Member Since: 17 Jul 2011
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markb110 wrote:
There’s a housing development near Reading that can’t have open fires or BBQ’s due to leaking radon gas.

It's probably methane rather than radon as the latter isn't flammable. Darren

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Post #928184 2nd Nov 2021 10:29am
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