 | Home > INEOS Grenadier > Delayed production start |
 
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| Pacha Member Since: 23 Feb 2020 Location: North Yorkshire Posts: 772   
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^^^^^^
Depends on a regions trademark laws. https://www.autoevolution.com/news/land-ro...47056.html Rgds. Chris |
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24th May 2021 11:00am |
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| cyberhusky Member Since: 09 Feb 2021 Location: Luxembourg Posts: 262 
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The Potsdam Institute of climate science is one of the leading institutes concerning climate change.
They did set up these bounderies where the systems interact with each other. Their latest study published 14th Mars 2021 shows these probalities, which system has reached its point of no return. At the moment that are 3: melting arctic sea ice, destruction of coral riff in Asia, collapsing of the Western antartic ice shield (this february a big ice shelf (3 times the surface of Mallorca) broke off. 9 of the 15-16 of these systembounderies are showing signs of moving and 3 of these 9 have reached their point of no return (it is too late) According to them we have just 10 years to remedy this, if not temperature will increase very fast. In the last 50 years we (mankind has destroyed 68% of all species). It's not just climate change (which is proven therefor over 100 nations did set the alarm of the planet). The last 10 years climate change was faster than the years before. The climate we live the last 12000 years is the big exception. We do live in a intermittent glacial time called Holocene. During these 12000 years climate was very stable on our planet, allowing for our civilisations to exist: before the Holocene, Climate did make big changes in decades, mankind was not settled and resident but wandered with the animals he chased. During these times temperature and climate changed extremely in decades (not made by mankind) and we survived, but still we lived like animals NO CIVILISATION. Earth knows ice ages since the last 2.5 million years, during these times we do have long glacial times and short interglacial times with extreme climate changes. But during the last 12000 years the Holocene, which had a stable average temperature of about 14°C with a variation of ±1°C. This stabilisation is the point! It allowed for regular rain- and dry seasons, it allowed for the seasons we know now, it allowed the water cycle systems we are used too. All this allowed mankind to settle, have cereals and new food. This allowed us to built high civilisations. If we wouldn't have this stable temperature we would still be hunters and collectors living and surviving in extreme climate conditions. If we do surpass these 14°C mean temperature (and it is proven that we are surpassing it) the stable paradisiacal Holocene we clearly need to survive as 9 billions humans on our planet. The above mentioned interaction systems will collide like domino bricks, and we don't have the chance to live we used too as 9 billion people, especially as we have settled and destroyed 50% of the planet. That's the reason we must stop and reverse producing CO2, that's why we have to stop coal and other fossil fuel. Why do you think all nations are saying until 2030 we must all have electrical vehicles? At the moment we are in a interglacial time, that means one of the warmest point we have had the last some million years. During ice ages there were alway some points of higher tempertures, but these were locally and not globally. If we continue to heat up the earth (with the production of CO2) we will have a heat age like during the times of the dinosaurs. The problem with science is they know a lot of the ice ages and the interglacial times but nothing about the heat ages. But that is exactly we going towards to. The same scientists did set up 9 borders of interacting systems. Mankind has left the safe state of 4 of these borders, 2 of them have reached critical status and 2 have reached point of no return (these are too much nitrogen and phosphor pumped into nature and destruction of species on earth). One of the borders is CO2 in the atmosphere: critical means a corridor of 350 to 450 ppm, we are at 415 ppm at the moment. Some say these 415 ppm are very near the critical point of no return, others say 450 ppm is feasable. If we reach the critical point of no return for the CO2, all these interacting systems begin to change and we are leaving the Holocene. But it is not the CO2 and temperature augmentation alone, we have to check the forests, oceans, soils, species… That's the reason Europe and USA will do all to have zero emissions until 2050 and China just stated they will reach this goal shortly after 2050. We only do have one chance the change it! We have to decarbonise the Earth! Therefor I say it's of no importance if it is 1°,2° 4°. We mankind survived much more sever cliamte changes. But we won't live the same way, the same civilisations etc. Actually already now most wars on earth are because of oil and water resources. The later is going to be much more in the coming years. Why do you think all countries are upgrading their military budgets? All this can be seen on Netflix or read "Breaking Bounderies: The Science of Our Planet" by Johan Rockström (scientific director at the Potsdam Institute for Climate resaearch) and Owen Gaffney Links in German on payable site https://www.spiegel.de/wissenschaft/schmel...e75f0c7abb https://www.spiegel.de/wissenschaft/klima-...0177514662
Yes I will do: I always wanted a Defender (the old one) since I saw "Daktari" on TV 
Now after my last 2 LR I am eagerly awaiting delivery in September of the new Defender. After 4 years I will exchange it for en EV Land Rover. Edit: added links From Spiegel.de 22MY Defender 110 (actual) | 10MY Freelander 2 (history) | 15MY Discovery Sport HSE (history) Last edited by cyberhusky on 24th May 2021 12:50pm. Edited 3 times in total |
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24th May 2021 11:08am |
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| cyberhusky Member Since: 09 Feb 2021 Location: Luxembourg Posts: 262
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Here is the link but it is in German you have to translate it. Auto, Motor und Sport is a very serious publication. https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/verkeh...n-prozess/ 22MY Defender 110 (actual) | 10MY Freelander 2 (history) | 15MY Discovery Sport HSE (history) |
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24th May 2021 11:13am |
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| Supacat Member Since: 16 Oct 2012 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 11018 
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Well we'll have to watch that space then. |
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24th May 2021 12:45pm |
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| Supacat Member Since: 16 Oct 2012 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 11018
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Thanks.
It may be the translation, but it's unclear whether this is under ip law or perhaps this: "This should not be enough under the stricter provisions of the law against unfair competition (UWG), says the lawyer. And adds:" German fans will probably have to wait a long time for Defender replica. " I guess either way, it does not matter if it proves to be successful. |
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24th May 2021 12:53pm |
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| cyberhusky Member Since: 09 Feb 2021 Location: Luxembourg Posts: 262
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@Supacat
The German lawyer is an IP Expert. In the UK it was ruled that the Defender design wasn't so special (although expert from Ford told so but expert from Volvo said Design isn't special: Willy's Jeep and Mercedes G are of the same design) people wouldn't make the difference so IP Design is of no importance  The Defender is iconic, you remark it from very long distances.
In Germany apparently IP Design is of importance. We will have to see and wait. 22MY Defender 110 (actual) | 10MY Freelander 2 (history) | 15MY Discovery Sport HSE (history) |
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24th May 2021 1:35pm |
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| cyberhusky Member Since: 09 Feb 2021 Location: Luxembourg Posts: 262
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Grenadier did choose BMW engines because BMW will still produce engines until 2035.
All other manufacturers will stop fuel engine production (Ford, VW, Peugeot, JLLR, Volvo…) until 2030 or sooner. Grenadier has no other choice 22MY Defender 110 (actual) | 10MY Freelander 2 (history) | 15MY Discovery Sport HSE (history) |
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24th May 2021 1:40pm |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 16879 
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I find Landrover's paranoia a little strange, since the Ineos is clearly targeted at a market sector Landrover has chosen to abandon. Are they really concerned about competition in this market?
The main argument from LR seems to be that the shape (which is far from exclusive) is highly characteristic of a vehicle they no longer make and can no longer make (they now just refurbish a few and sell them to people with more money than sense), so they are unlikely to be affected in any way by sales of the Grenadier. The shape that are supposedly protecting is one which Joe Public demonstrably doesn't associate with Landrover (being more likely to identify it as a "Jeep") and to which the Grenadier is no more and no less similar than Mercedes, Toyota, Jeep, Daihatsu, Santana etc vehicle are or have been. It rather smells of desperation to me, and when Landrover then starts targeting an artist who depicts Landrover products in images the stench gets worse. Perhaps next they'll start to demand a licence fee from people who publish photos of Landrovers (the owners of a certain preserved steam locomotive tried this once, and it wasn't particularly successful)! I deplore the passing off as one product as another and the whole counterfeit thing, and applaud the protection of IPR and trademarks, but no-one is going to buy a Grenadier inadvertently thinking it is a Landrover, and it is doubtful that anyone is even going to buy one instead of a Landrover. |
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24th May 2021 1:40pm |
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| Philip Member Since: 09 Mar 2018 Location: England Posts: 510
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Desperation? It’s an absolutely brazen rip-off, but in the worst phoned-in to China fashion. Just embarrassing to present the Grenadier as a supposed clean-sheet design.
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24th May 2021 4:17pm |
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| cyberhusky Member Since: 09 Feb 2021 Location: Luxembourg Posts: 262
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I think OFF-Road wise the Grenadier will be a beast, putting everything out there in the shadow.
Why? Made by Magna Steyr who do have one of the best OFF road test sites (very demanding and difficult) Magna Steyr did built the legendary Punch Pinzgauer like the LR 101 Forward Control or Unimog only much better. And they do the Mercedes G-Klass. The Grenadier will have ZF automatic transmission, the best out there. Plus rigid axles made by Carraro in Italy known for high quality axles for agriculture machines. As for the BMW engine I don't know if that is great choice. They are great for fast street cars but real 4x4? I remember the Freelander 1 with it's BMW engine or the Jaguar XJ from the 80/90s had lots of engine problems. (How was the saying: I need 2 Jaguar XJ, one to drive and one for the spare engine parts.) But as BMW is the only manufacturer building fuel engine after 2030 Grenadier had no other choice. All will be built with new security and safety rules. But when it will be available now they say in 2022 (probably later as always with such projects) only some hardcore fans and people who really need them will buy a Grenadier, if the price stays at 35000€ which I doubt. I wish them good luck but don't think it will succeed. 22MY Defender 110 (actual) | 10MY Freelander 2 (history) | 15MY Discovery Sport HSE (history) |
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24th May 2021 4:52pm |
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| Philip Member Since: 09 Mar 2018 Location: England Posts: 510
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I think that might depend on the kind of off-road ability you’re measuring by - people who engineer these things have suggested that the length of the rear trailing arms and dimension of the wheel/arch boxes don’t suggest a lot of articulation, for example.
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24th May 2021 5:06pm |
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| Supacat Member Since: 16 Oct 2012 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 11018
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Any actual metrics (even estimates) and what's it being benchmarked against?
From this photo it looks more than reasonable:  Click image to enlarge
Click image to enlarge And with true locking axle diffs then it's less of an issue in terms of getting cross axled. |
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24th May 2021 5:35pm |
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| Philip Member Since: 09 Mar 2018 Location: England Posts: 510
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Ultimately articulation is about spring rate and roll stiffness (assuming the physical travel is there), hence why that late Defender doesn’t have as much as the Series III (and has less chance of falling over going around a roundabout).
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24th May 2021 5:51pm |
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| 22900013A Member Since: 23 Dec 2010 Location: Oxfordshire Posts: 3140 
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That series III is highly modified anyway, a standard series can't flex like that. 2011 110 USW
1973 Series III 1-Ton 1972 Series III 1-Ton Cherrypicker 1969 IIA 1-Ton 1966 IIA 88" |
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24th May 2021 6:58pm |
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