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Bluest



Member Since: 23 Apr 2016
Location: Lancashire
Posts: 3993

United Kingdom 2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 XS CSW Java Black
I’d be interested to know what the term “recon” actually means before parting with any cash for an engine described as such. It could range from a thorough jet wash to make it look presentable to a full strip down and assessment. 2007 110 TDCi Station Wagon XS
Post #899375 21st Apr 2021 6:44pm
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Smyles_



Member Since: 25 Aug 2018
Location: Copenhagen
Posts: 512

Denmark 2008 Defender 130 Puma 2.4 HCPU Cairns Blue
I'd agree with Bluest on that. My completely rebuilt Cummins alone is £6k. Admittedly it's a much less common engine with more expensive intervals and a thousand pound fuel pump, but still. These M57s must be pretty inexpensive as to allow for parts and labour for that price!

But Co1, if you're in need of some confirmation bias or peer pressure I'm here to help and think you should go full send on the conversion Thumbs Up

But back on topic, PCM, I think you should reconsider the LS3. I don't think it'd be that mental. Only until you strap a twin scroll supercharger to it do I think it'd command some serious hedge destroying caution Mr. Green Mr. Green Stuart


Cummins 130 Build Thread
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04 110 Double Cab - Black (gone)
58 130 Double Cab HCPU - Cairns Blue
Post #899383 21st Apr 2021 7:09pm
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Co1



Member Since: 19 Aug 2018
Location: North Yorkshire
Posts: 3604

United Kingdom 2013 Defender 90 Puma 2.2 HT Loire Blue
The recon m57 comes with a years warranty, which is nice! There is a big chunk of “want” involved in these considerations rather than “need”, so your confirmation bias is welcomed!
Post #899387 21st Apr 2021 7:30pm
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Pacha



Member Since: 23 Feb 2020
Location: North Yorkshire
Posts: 771

United Kingdom 2008 Defender 90 Puma 2.4 HT Stornoway Grey
^^^^^^^^

Rolling with laughter

Amen Rgds.

Chris
Post #899396 21st Apr 2021 7:49pm
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JOW240725



Member Since: 04 May 2015
Location: Suffolk
Posts: 7866

United Kingdom 2012 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 XS CSW Orkney Grey
No straight forward answer really Confused Neutral James
MY2012 110 2.2TDCi XS SW Orkney Grey - http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic43410.html
MY1990 110 200TDi SW beautifully faded Portofino Red - https://www.defender2.net/forum/post743641.html#743641
MY1984 90 V8 Slate Grey - https://www.defender2.net/forum/post744557.html#744557
Instagram @suffolk_rovers
Post #899415 21st Apr 2021 8:55pm
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I Like Old Skool



Member Since: 23 Feb 2015
Location: Manchester
Posts: 746

United Kingdom 1994 Defender 110 300 Tdi ST Coniston Green
Reading this makes me glad my 160k 300tdi is running like a dream and has enough punch to not be embarrasing in the traffic light derby.
Post #899422 21st Apr 2021 9:20pm
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Smyles_



Member Since: 25 Aug 2018
Location: Copenhagen
Posts: 512

Denmark 2008 Defender 130 Puma 2.4 HCPU Cairns Blue
JOW240725 wrote:
No straight forward answer really Confused Neutral

Wowowow there James, this here is a confirmation bias thread only, no need for those negative thoughts! Razz Wink

My understanding was that an engine conversion to something with more pistons in a new and exciting firing order was the answer to any man's problem, whether they be financial or marital - consider them all solved Mr. Green Stuart


Cummins 130 Build Thread
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04 110 Double Cab - Black (gone)
58 130 Double Cab HCPU - Cairns Blue
Post #899428 21st Apr 2021 9:52pm
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kenzle8a



Member Since: 12 Feb 2020
Location: None
Posts: 1074

 
If my 110 wasn't in use on the land so to speak I would be mighty tempted to use the basis of the M57 kit and fit the S54 from the M3 with one of the carbon airboxes from the CSL.
Post #899463 22nd Apr 2021 8:27am
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Co1



Member Since: 19 Aug 2018
Location: North Yorkshire
Posts: 3604

United Kingdom 2013 Defender 90 Puma 2.2 HT Loire Blue
I’ve been doing a bit of digging and spoken to a few companies today. Prices vary wildly, but everywhere I have looked I’ve insisted on a recon engine with a 1 year warranty and all manual. For the M57 I’ve been quoted from £4.8k up to £17k inc vat and for a merc OM606 I’ve been quoted from just over £4K to £21k (I didn’t even both asking if the latter contained VAT).

From what I can ascertain, the bulk of the adaptor plates and electrical elements come from the same place, some I’m struggling to see the big swings in price other than some people thinking their name is worth a premium.
Post #899561 22nd Apr 2021 3:12pm
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Bluest



Member Since: 23 Apr 2016
Location: Lancashire
Posts: 3993

United Kingdom 2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 XS CSW Java Black
Co1, did you establish what was included in the recon for each seller, as that could account for the large variation in price.

My suspicion is that certainly at the lower end prices the vendor may well just do nothing other than supply a running engine and take a chance it will last a year. 2007 110 TDCi Station Wagon XS
Post #899620 22nd Apr 2021 7:44pm
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Smyles_



Member Since: 25 Aug 2018
Location: Copenhagen
Posts: 512

Denmark 2008 Defender 130 Puma 2.4 HCPU Cairns Blue

Click image to enlarge

Consider it light motivation Col Wink

Co1 wrote:
I’m struggling to see the big swings in price other than some people thinking their name is worth a premium.
Not gonna name names, but that^! Whistle Stuart


Cummins 130 Build Thread
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04 110 Double Cab - Black (gone)
58 130 Double Cab HCPU - Cairns Blue
Post #899656 22nd Apr 2021 11:33pm
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Co1



Member Since: 19 Aug 2018
Location: North Yorkshire
Posts: 3604

United Kingdom 2013 Defender 90 Puma 2.2 HT Loire Blue
Bluest wrote:
Co1, did you establish what was included in the recon for each seller, as that could account for the large variation in price.

My suspicion is that certainly at the lower end prices the vendor may well just do nothing other than supply a running engine and take a chance it will last a year.


I didn’t except with Stagshaw and 4x4 Fabrication. The rest haven’t exactly been forthcoming with their customer service which is a shame but feels pretty typical these days. Nobody seems to have time to actually answer the phone these days and when I did manage to speak I was told to email all my questions through, with the exception of the guys above who both took the time to talk me through the process.
Post #899661 23rd Apr 2021 5:06am
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Co1



Member Since: 19 Aug 2018
Location: North Yorkshire
Posts: 3604

United Kingdom 2013 Defender 90 Puma 2.2 HT Loire Blue
Smyles_ wrote:

Click image to enlarge

Consider it light motivation Col Wink

Co1 wrote:
I’m struggling to see the big swings in price other than some people thinking their name is worth a premium.
Not gonna name names, but that^! Whistle


That thing is a beast!!
Post #899662 23rd Apr 2021 5:06am
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wrcarter



Member Since: 14 Jan 2021
Location: Laois
Posts: 45

Ireland 1989 Defender 110 200 Tdi CSW Portofino Red
Inigo wrote:
I've just had my third 2.2 engine fitted to my Defender and while I had investigated the M57 conversions, they all seemed to be based on fitting old engines. Most of those that I could find already had 150,000 miles on them.

Is there a source for new M57 engines?

Also, a quick poke about the BMW forums suggests that BMW engines are just as capable of self-destructing as Ford engines. I decided to stick with what I know, but would be interested for next time.


M57 engines are great and very reliable. I've been driving BMWs as daily cars for years and have had a few M57s. My current one was purchased with 150K, now has 230K on the clock but I recently found out 8 years worth of mileage had been erased from the car. From my experience, M57s self destructing is extremely rare. Yes turbos can fail but that's not a massive job. In early days, swirl flaps caused issues but most have the flaps removed by now or you can removed them yourself. I'd have no issue putting a 150k mile M57 into a defender. If the values of e46s weren't shooting up, I would probably fit the 230K one in my e46 into the 110. 1989 Land Rover 110 CSW
Post #899692 23rd Apr 2021 8:42am
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Smyles_



Member Since: 25 Aug 2018
Location: Copenhagen
Posts: 512

Denmark 2008 Defender 130 Puma 2.4 HCPU Cairns Blue
Co1 wrote:
Bluest wrote:
Co1, did you establish what was included in the recon for each seller, as that could account for the large variation in price.

My suspicion is that certainly at the lower end prices the vendor may well just do nothing other than supply a running engine and take a chance it will last a year.


I didn’t except with Stagshaw and 4x4 Fabrication. The rest haven’t exactly been forthcoming with their customer service which is a shame but feels pretty typical these days. Nobody seems to have time to actually answer the phone these days and when I did manage to speak I was told to email all my questions through, with the exception of the guys above who both took the time to talk me through the process.


I asked the chaps at 4x4Fab about supplying me with one of their rebuilt Cummins motors. They never bothered to get back to me, and frankly I'm glad they didn't seeing what Reece has built me Very Happy

Then when the chaps at Stagshaw - who have in the past met with the owner - asked generally about the things involved in a Cummins conversion, they gave some story about how they don't like to do them anymore after a customer had their Cummins 130 seized by VOSA... and instead tried to sell us a conversion kit for a BMW (can't remember which engine). This meanwhile was all whilst they were plastering their Instagram account with a Cummins 130 build... nice try Whistle

Ooh, and then there was the lads who came to pick up my tipper and lived nearby to 4x4Fab. Can't remember what their exact words were, but they didn't exactly speak kindly of the owner Embarassed

Fair to say I'm no longer a fan of theirs, but then again I'm biased after all given who's doing my conversion Razz Thumbs Up Stuart


Cummins 130 Build Thread
Instagram

04 110 Double Cab - Black (gone)
58 130 Double Cab HCPU - Cairns Blue
Post #899703 23rd Apr 2021 10:01am
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