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HK07



Member Since: 15 Dec 2016
Location: Hampshire
Posts: 746

England 2007 Defender 90 Puma 2.4 HT Cairns Blue
Stacey007 wrote:
What's the expected price of the Santana / sorry Grenadier Thumbs Up



Interesting as it does 'look' more rugged, with the fronts a bit heavy looking.....








They are cart sprung. 2007 90 Puma - Love it - Best car I have ever owned.

1989 Ninety 200tdi - Love it - Second best car I have ever owned.

1951 80" Series 1 - Love it - Third best car I have ever owned.
Post #835976 8th Jun 2020 4:55pm
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windy81



Member Since: 14 Mar 2018
Location: North Wales
Posts: 311

Wales 1992 Defender 90 200 Tdi HT Firenze Red
Looks promising. I'm exited to see what becomes of it.
Post #836030 9th Jun 2020 12:37am
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Supacat



Member Since: 16 Oct 2012
Location: West Yorkshire
Posts: 11018

United Kingdom 2013 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 XS DCPU Keswick Green

Click image to enlarge


I'm looking at that rear and seeing this:


Click image to enlarge
Post #836042 9th Jun 2020 6:07am
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Supacat



Member Since: 16 Oct 2012
Location: West Yorkshire
Posts: 11018

United Kingdom 2013 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 XS DCPU Keswick Green
HK07 wrote:
The side glass is far to foward to pass today's rules.


Could you explain that a little more?

Looks like you could have a picnic on the upper surface of the front bumper:


Click image to enlarge
Post #836044 9th Jun 2020 6:21am
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Setok



Member Since: 16 Jan 2009
Location: Helsinki
Posts: 415

Finland 
The bumper size is probably related to pedestrian safety laws. The Wrangler has a similar huge lipped front...
Post #836051 9th Jun 2020 6:59am
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blackwolf



Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 16808

United Kingdom 2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Stornoway Grey
At least the front bumper has been designed with approach angle in mind, and should make a fairly discreet winch mount possible.
Post #836067 9th Jun 2020 7:50am
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Grenadier



Member Since: 23 Jul 2014
Location: The foot of Mont Blanc...
Posts: 5765

France 2011 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Corris Grey
Those spy shots can in no-way be the new shape, because McGovern told us that with current Euro safety rules it was impossible to retain the original, iconic, characterful flat-fronted look of the original Defender. And I believe him. Because he’s McGovern. Which really means God. Maybe. Whistle Monsieur Le Grenadier

I've not been everywhere, but it's on my list.....

2011 Puma 110DC - Corris Grey
Post #836070 9th Jun 2020 7:58am
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Supacat



Member Since: 16 Oct 2012
Location: West Yorkshire
Posts: 11018

United Kingdom 2013 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 XS DCPU Keswick Green
Exactly... Rolling with laughter
Post #836073 9th Jun 2020 8:11am
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Bluest



Member Since: 23 Apr 2016
Location: Lancashire
Posts: 3993

United Kingdom 2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 XS CSW Java Black
blackwolf wrote:
At least the front bumper has been designed with approach angle in mind, and should make a fairly discreet winch mount possible.


I think Red Winch have hinted on their social media yesterday that they may be a supplier to the Grenadier project. If so, that's a quality British built accessory. 2007 110 TDCi Station Wagon XS
Post #836083 9th Jun 2020 8:40am
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HK07



Member Since: 15 Dec 2016
Location: Hampshire
Posts: 746

England 2007 Defender 90 Puma 2.4 HT Cairns Blue
Supacat wrote:
HK07 wrote:
The side glass is far to foward to pass today's rules.


Could you explain that a little more?


I drive two vans for my work. One is a 64 plate Fiesta van that is fine with 99% of junctions as the drivers door extends along way back behind the drivers seat, meaning you can look over your right (RHD) shoulder and see what's there. Left turns are mostly very easy aswell

In our 90 hardtop (van) the door finishes before the seat and looking over your shoulder is pointless. At any junction over 90°, I open the door, lean out and look bacwards to see if anything is coming. Left hand turn gets very difficult.

The Fiesta is almost as good as a normal car, if you dont think ahead the 90 is a pain and something im sure would no longer be allowed.

This Grenadier mule looks to me like it would provide the driver with the same problems as my 1950's designed SWB Land Rover. 2007 90 Puma - Love it - Best car I have ever owned.

1989 Ninety 200tdi - Love it - Second best car I have ever owned.

1951 80" Series 1 - Love it - Third best car I have ever owned.
Post #836092 9th Jun 2020 9:12am
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blackwolf



Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 16808

United Kingdom 2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Stornoway Grey
I'm not sure that there are rules governing this, though, there seem to be many vehicles with this problem.

Any idea what the regs say these days?
Post #836099 9th Jun 2020 10:22am
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Wild Card 90



Member Since: 03 Dec 2014
Location: Gerlingen
Posts: 1060

England 2012 Defender 90 Puma 2.2 SW Indus Silver
Generally I find what I see in these new spy shots encouraging. For sure, this is still not the final shape, but they wouldn´t be testing a disguised prototype if it didn´t have some relevance to what the final vehicle looks like.

Great proportions, honest straight forward engineering and simple "fix in in the field" sheet metal looks to be in place. Well done! The doors appear to be of the clamshell variety, as used on the original Hummer. Could work well here.

What still worries me is what I see in the straight side view (and has been mentioned already). The 68 year old ergonomics of the original series LR have been respected and retained. People got taller, and we learnt alot about ergonomy along the way (the height of kitchen counters is a perfect example).

In the side view the door is too short and too far forward. Like in most of our Defenders, we sit behind the b-post, which makes for bad visibility and access. Acceptable in our old vehicles, but not in a brand new construction.
The test driver is also sitting too high (or the window upper edge is too low). A known weakness of our old Landies. Maybe the test vehicle sports aftermarket seats, mounted on standard frames, and this problem will be addressed.

I´m all for avoiding the overloaded electronic wizardry that causes so much grief in modern vehicles (how often do I drive the Defender or other classics on long journeys and pass current or new vehicles standing on the hard shoulder, their owners looking blankly at a plastic engine cover in bewilderment). This has nothing to do with old school dimensions.

@ Ineos R&D: Please don´t confuse our fascination for the classic Defender/Series with a desire to awkwardly sit in a cabin that was designed around the drivetrain and not for the human frame sitting on top! Lessons learnt.....

Thumbs Up Keep going, keep up the good work. Don´t stop until it is just right! Thumbs Up 1998 Tdi 90 SW,
2008 Td4 90 SW,
2012 2.2 90 SW,
2" raised Trailmaster/Terrafirma
Heavy Track Raids, 255 MT´s,
Recaro CS´s, anorak, wellingtons
Post #836107 9th Jun 2020 11:23am
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Wild Card 90



Member Since: 03 Dec 2014
Location: Gerlingen
Posts: 1060

England 2012 Defender 90 Puma 2.2 SW Indus Silver
The steering wheel is middle of side window. A slightly more crowned windscreen(moving the a-post rearward), a longer door (moving the b-post rearward would solve this.
These are basics of automotive design. The foundations, so to speak.


Click image to enlarge
 1998 Tdi 90 SW,
2008 Td4 90 SW,
2012 2.2 90 SW,
2" raised Trailmaster/Terrafirma
Heavy Track Raids, 255 MT´s,
Recaro CS´s, anorak, wellingtons
Post #836108 9th Jun 2020 11:32am
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Bluest



Member Since: 23 Apr 2016
Location: Lancashire
Posts: 3993

United Kingdom 2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 XS CSW Java Black
I think the basic proportion will be at the point where they are now fixed. They are aiming for launch next year. The shape reminds of the Wrangler for some reason. Are those Wrangler wheels?

I too noticed the steering wheel being very close to the driver, but hope that maybe it's not the finished column and wheel. Is it too much to hope it will have rake and reach adjustment? Oh the luxury!

It would be a big mistake to launch it with bad ergonomics. 2007 110 TDCi Station Wagon XS
Post #836112 9th Jun 2020 11:58am
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Supacat



Member Since: 16 Oct 2012
Location: West Yorkshire
Posts: 11018

United Kingdom 2013 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 XS DCPU Keswick Green
The rear detail on the top and bottom edges of the front doors intrigues me ~ they appear to be chamfered, and I'm trying to think of an engineering justification rather than a design one?


Click image to enlarge
Post #836118 9th Jun 2020 12:42pm
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