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Hufflepuff

Member Since: 25 Oct 2014
Location: Hampshire
Posts: 723

Swivel housing resistance setting

I'm rebuilding my front axle at the moment, and am setting the resistance on the swivel housing.

The Haynes manual states this should be between 3.6kg and 4.5kg of force needed to move it, when pulling off the rear tie rod bracket.

So I'm doing this:

Click image to enlarge

I've got it to about the right resistance, in the 3 to 4kg range anyway, but this feels quite stiff to turn by hand. Have I misunderstood something, or should it be quite stiff to rotate? I've checked the pull gauge calibration with a known 5kg dumbbell weight, which it correctly measured.

I think I'm doing it right but would like a bit of confirmation from more experienced minds. My concern is that all the videos I've watched of people doing this, they seemed to use all the supplied shims (or even needing additional ones), whereas I removed 3 of the 4, leaving just the thickest 0.8mm shim left to get the right tension.

Please set my mind at ease!

Many thanks,
Chris. 2005 Td5 90 XS
1989 V8 110 CSW

27th Apr 2020 1:34pm

dorsetsmith

Member Since: 30 Oct 2011
Location: South West
Posts: 4554

Click image to enlarge

27th Apr 2020 1:49pm

donmacn

Member Since: 07 Nov 2017
Location: Nth Scotland
Posts: 1829

Hi hufflepuff, your picture doesn't show it, but have you left the swivel seal unattached?

The resistance figures you've given are for the pull without the seal in place. Apologies if that's too obvious, but the same question was posed just a few weeks ago, and that time, the seal had been fitted.

I think there's more initial resistance, but then the quoted figures are for the 'steady pull / swivel moving' phase - even it if is quite a short range of movement. Donald

1994 Defender 300Tdi 110 SW - owned since 2002 - 230k miles and going strong
(The 'rolling restoration' or tinkering thread: http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic58538.html )
2000 Range Rover P38 4.0L V8

in the past..
RR classic - fitted with 200Tdi
1984 RR classic - V8 with ZF auto box
1993 Discovery 300Tdi

not to mention the minis and the Type 2 VW camper...

27th Apr 2020 2:02pm

Chris86

Member Since: 15 Jul 2014
Location: South Yorks
Posts: 755

Got to do this job in a few weeks.

not particularly looking forward to it.

Chris

27th Apr 2020 2:17pm

Hufflepuff

Member Since: 25 Oct 2014
Location: Hampshire
Posts: 723

Thanks for the feedback gentlemen.
The seal is not fitted at the moment, as per trailer fitter Chris’ recommendation, the ball is just mounted to the axle with three bolts.

The workshop manual for the 300tdi is stating only 1.5kg if force then Dorsetsmith? I wonder why the Haynes manual is so different. I actually bought Brooklands dork shop manuals for both the older models and the td5 onwards, but I have not been able to locate the procedure for the swivels in them. I will go and have another look... 2005 Td5 90 XS
1989 V8 110 CSW

27th Apr 2020 2:18pm

Hufflepuff

Member Since: 25 Oct 2014
Location: Hampshire
Posts: 723

Heh just realised the workshop manual states 78nm for the top pin bolts, Haynes says 65nm. 2005 Td5 90 XS
1989 V8 110 CSW

27th Apr 2020 2:20pm

donmacn

Member Since: 07 Nov 2017
Location: Nth Scotland
Posts: 1829

well, fwiw, I had the 300Tdi workshop manual right beside me... that says 1.16 to 1.46kg once the initial inertia has been overcome. Donald

1994 Defender 300Tdi 110 SW - owned since 2002 - 230k miles and going strong
(The 'rolling restoration' or tinkering thread: http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic58538.html )
2000 Range Rover P38 4.0L V8

in the past..
RR classic - fitted with 200Tdi
1984 RR classic - V8 with ZF auto box
1993 Discovery 300Tdi

not to mention the minis and the Type 2 VW camper...

27th Apr 2020 2:20pm

donmacn

Member Since: 07 Nov 2017
Location: Nth Scotland
Posts: 1829

Good spot!

I keep an old copy of the Haynes manual under one of the second row seats for 'emergencies'. But it is worrying if they can be so far out. Donald

1994 Defender 300Tdi 110 SW - owned since 2002 - 230k miles and going strong
(The 'rolling restoration' or tinkering thread: http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic58538.html )
2000 Range Rover P38 4.0L V8

in the past..
RR classic - fitted with 200Tdi
1984 RR classic - V8 with ZF auto box
1993 Discovery 300Tdi

not to mention the minis and the Type 2 VW camper...

27th Apr 2020 2:22pm

Hufflepuff

Member Since: 25 Oct 2014
Location: Hampshire
Posts: 723

Ah the mystery deepens. In the workshop manual 1983-1995 MY, it states 3.6 to 4.5kg, the same as the Haynes manual. I wonder if Land Rover updated the procedure when they moved away from the Railko bush. 2005 Td5 90 XS
1989 V8 110 CSW

27th Apr 2020 2:26pm

rallysteve

Member Since: 10 Feb 2014
Location: Cumbria
Posts: 2199

2002 Defender 110 Td5 DCPU Keswick Green

You are correct, the lower drag force should correspond to the use of the upper and lower taper roller bearings. The higher setting was for the Raiko bushing.

Be aware that one of the workshop manual gives a ridiculous torque setting for the lower swivel pin retaining bolts (which are only M

. EDIT: It is infact step 45 in DorsetSmith's screenshot of the manual that specifies 78Nm for some M8 Gr8,8 bolts

Steve 02' 110 TD5 Double Cab Rebuild Thread
84' 90 3.9 V8 Caged Pickup Build Thread - Now For Sale

Mobile Diesel Heater Build Thread

Last edited by rallysteve on 27th Apr 2020 2:48pm. Edited 2 times in total

27th Apr 2020 2:43pm

Hufflepuff

Member Since: 25 Oct 2014
Location: Hampshire
Posts: 723

OK moving forward. I have located the page in the newer workshop manual which Dorsetsmith referenced. Section 54, which *Obviously* comes right after section 88.... how obvious.

I wonder if the ball joint bore it is stating to hand the spring balance off is the front, longer arm? The earlier manual was stating the rear shorter tie rod arm. It is possible that 3kg on the short one is the same as 1.5kg on the longer arm, I will go and measure.

Annoyingly the newer doc is stating the lower pin bolts should be 78nm. The older workshop manual states 22 to 28nm, which did not seem much at all. Pity I have lot items those in already, I will remove, clean and redo to the higher torque, and then just follow the newer manual’s instructions throughout. 2005 Td5 90 XS
1989 V8 110 CSW

27th Apr 2020 2:43pm

Hufflepuff

Member Since: 25 Oct 2014
Location: Hampshire
Posts: 723

Oh heh our posts crossed there Steve on the torque settings. 22-28 seems pretty low though. 2005 Td5 90 XS
1989 V8 110 CSW

27th Apr 2020 2:44pm

rallysteve

Member Since: 10 Feb 2014
Location: Cumbria
Posts: 2199

ah yes!

The bolts are only M8- Gr8.8 so that torque is correct.

Cheers,
Steve 02' 110 TD5 Double Cab Rebuild Thread
84' 90 3.9 V8 Caged Pickup Build Thread - Now For Sale

Mobile Diesel Heater Build Thread

27th Apr 2020 2:47pm

Hufflepuff

Member Since: 25 Oct 2014
Location: Hampshire
Posts: 723

Sorry which is correct, the Lower 22-28nm? 2005 Td5 90 XS
1989 V8 110 CSW

27th Apr 2020 2:50pm

rallysteve

Member Since: 10 Feb 2014
Location: Cumbria
Posts: 2199

Yes sorry, the 22-28Nm is the correct tightening torque for a Gr8.8 fastener. Much more than that and it will be at risk of shearing off.

Cheers 02' 110 TD5 Double Cab Rebuild Thread
84' 90 3.9 V8 Caged Pickup Build Thread - Now For Sale

Mobile Diesel Heater Build Thread

27th Apr 2020 3:21pm

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