 | Home > General & Technical (L663) > Negativity |
 
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| Jeepmadmike Member Since: 30 Jan 2020 Location: Devon Posts: 11  
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So why the massive negativity for the new defender....
I have had a long love for land rovers and jeeps and currently own a disco 4 and a 1947 willys jeep, I have owned a late defender, land cruiser 70, a G wagon and several Suzuki’s From my experience the old defender was well past it’s sell by date 40 years ago - coil springs gave them a stay of execution but for far far to long. I was very tempted by a new wrangler but I think the defender will be a better choice..... just have to wait till I get a delivery date  |
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31st Jan 2020 10:44pm |
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| Smilesapart Member Since: 28 Sep 2013 Location: Suffolk Posts: 735
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We really love the new Defender and fully intend to save like mad to hopefully get a 3 or 4 year old one to replace my partners Freelander 2 - in 3 to 4 years time! Then we’ll have the best of both worlds. A new shape and my lovely old shape. What’s better than that?
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31st Jan 2020 11:45pm |
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| mikelike Member Since: 31 Aug 2011 Location: new zealand Posts: 108 |
The negativity I believe comes from the fact a Defender was a multi purpose utility vehicle .
Now it is another suv , just like the Discovery and Range Rover . The defender / series were basic work tools , that were repairable and long lasting . Defender2 seems to be a Discovery replacement , and I wonder if it could do a camel trophy event as good as the Disco 1 ? Interesting video , biggest seller was a pick up , something that is obviously below them now 
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1st Feb 2020 6:21am |
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| Pickles Member Since: 26 May 2013 Location: Melbourne Posts: 3753  
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Maybe it's not really negativity, but just that it's so much different to what we're used to in a Defender, that current owners prefer what they've got?
Pickles. |
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1st Feb 2020 6:29am |
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| landy andy Member Since: 15 Feb 2009 Location: Ware, Herts Posts: 5420 
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The negativity from me is due to the point of a Defender is about the basic, easy to fix engineering, and certainly not it’s road manners.
It’s strange to read that the fact it’s on coil springs is wrong, when I see that most of its competitors are on rear leaf springs. But maybe that is where people differ. Some compare it to a Land Cruiser, where I’m thinking more of a commercial vehicle fit for work, not a motorway machine. I don’t want toys, I want character. I don’t want complicated computer controlled systems that need reprogramming, I want simplicity. I wish they would just let Defender cease. It’s the same as most of these ugly plastic remakes such as the massive Fiat 500’s, or new shape not so mini Mini’s |
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1st Feb 2020 6:54am |
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| Jeepmadmike Member Since: 30 Jan 2020 Location: Devon Posts: 11
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I can understand the love of basic vehicles but I also could not live with one for the mileages I do - In a day often do 200 miles on tarmac and 5 off road.
The Luddites seem to be scared of wires and computers.... even my Morris minor has 2 ecu’s (engine management and power steering) and that makes it a far better car in every respect. Land Rover should have looked hard at the 70 series land cruiser 30+ years ago, very very well made, simple, strong but room in the cab and the doors shut on them after they’ve done 200000 miles on dirt tracks. As for it just being another SUV - their a very diluted vehicle today, very very few offer any real off road ability I’ve looked long and hard for a D4 replacement - new defender is the car/truck that appears to fit the bill so if paid a deposit and should be on the build slot list! |
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1st Feb 2020 9:29am |
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| LandRoverAnorak Member Since: 17 Jul 2011 Location: Surrey Posts: 11240 
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I think your last line sums up the problem, although I'd argue it's more disappointment than just negativity. When the D5 came out, a lot of people were disappointed with its' styling, considering it bland compared to the boldness that was the D3/4 platform. The new Defender looks like it has corrected that issue and there are lots of D4 owners now considering it as their next LR.
Conversely, many exiting Defender owners are disappointed that it's replacement has moved so far from the purpose of the original in terms of versatility and character. Very few would argue that the original didn't warrant updating but the choices that LR have made to do so are, by and large, not those that existing owners would have made. That doesn't make them luddites (many of us are happy to interrogate our vehicles from our phones!) but it does speak of different priorities. I suspect that part of the problem here is that LR have essentially skipped to the end of the vehicle development process. If the original Defender had been updated and facelifted in line with most other vehicles (the Range Rover is a good example), then this new version wouldn't seem so alien. As it is though, many find it difficult to reconcile it's design with what's gone before. Darren 110 USW BUILD THREAD - EXPEDITION TRAILER - 200tdi 90 BUILD THREAD - SANKEY TRAILER - IG@landroveranorak "You came in that thing? You're braver than I thought!" - Princess Leia |
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1st Feb 2020 10:34am |
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| landy andy Member Since: 15 Feb 2009 Location: Ware, Herts Posts: 5420
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At least we all agree.
The new Defender is a great Disco replacement  |
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1st Feb 2020 10:42am |
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| Smilesapart Member Since: 28 Sep 2013 Location: Suffolk Posts: 735
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Maybe once the commercial versions come out and are a huge success they’ll decide to do a pick up too and more die hard Defender lovers will come on board
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1st Feb 2020 11:00am |
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| X4SKP Member Since: 29 Nov 2013 Location: Berkshire Posts: 2287 
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Whilst in London recently I was passing a main dealership...so pulled in, crossed the forecourt and entered the cream coloured, sealed environment bubble of the Land Rover showroom and had walk around the new Defender, with both a 90 and 110 on show, each plugged into the floor and lit up along with the rest of the LR model line up.
Had a good play inside and out, opened everything, and went through the very long list of optional extras for Defender... (there looks to be a real attempt to own more of the aftermarket £) I admit I've struggled all along with the approach taken and for me I still don't really get it... why essentially replicate the offer of a Discovery with what appears to amount to mainly styling difference only 
Fundamentally, I accept that the new Defender is probably a very capable vehicle but with currently unproven build quality, and a lot of stuff relying on it... if LR gets this aspect right it may ultimately be judged to have taken a step forward for Defender, especially with it now being possible to sell it around the world, but from the brand perspective, for me, it's missed the opportunity to have a genuine successor to Defender, leaving the rest of the range to cover the SUV spectrum. Here's the thing... to my eyes every Land Rover Defender produced up to the end in 2016 managed to carry with it the accumulative work focused, practical, adventurous history established from the first Series Land Rovers onwards... this has now been left behind, the link is broken, it also means that the market for the real Defender 2 has been left open for other ventures to exploit. With the JLR Defender 2... I don't see the 'blood line' of true design intent, I now see 'I'm now a clone of the rest'... for me it’s just too much car, with too much tech... a look don’t touch Defender. I may be wrong but I think it is highly unlikely that the new Defender will ultimately be viewed with anything like the affection of its predecessor as it breaks the spirit of a more or less no-nonsense vehicle that you tailor for your own needs, will it go out there and continue the pioneering Land Rover story... I doubt it. I so wanted the new Defender to remain the maverick of the Land Rover range... but no. SKIP https://www.defender2.net/forum/topic83242.html |
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1st Feb 2020 11:12am |
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| Muddybigdog Member Since: 11 Apr 2014 Location: Suffolk Posts: 992 
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From a personal perspective, it appears that 70 years of history and heritage has disappeared in the sweep of a designers pencil/crayon or whatever they use these day, that instantly recognizable design icon has been lost. Once a vehicle that was instantly recognizable on every continent on the planet and was the first motorized car millions of people had seen, to something that resembles a misfit child of a Honda Element and a Kia Soll.
I have not seen it in the flesh, but so far the pictures have disappointed, from once an affordable Icon to an un-affordable plastic looking plaything, that many of which will most likely will never see what the Wilks Brothers designed this once legend of the motoring world for. The loss of this heritage is disappointing. Jumped ship to reliability - Mitsubishi L200 Puma 90 XS - Sold D3 - 2.7 S x2 (both Sold) Freelander 2 HSE - Sold Freelander 1 - Sold Disco 2 - Sold |
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1st Feb 2020 11:21am |
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| RDR Member Since: 27 Apr 2018 Location: Derbyshire Posts: 570
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It’s not negativity in the main it’s just change and it takes time. There was no way everyone would like it nor will it suit everyone and we need to respect that. Land Rover were in a rock and a hard place with this, trying to cater for everyone and then get it to pass all the safety tests and requirements for all markets and it be a good financially viable seller was a tall order. I love it and if anything I think they played it a bit safe in the design and tech I would have like more.
I’d liken the current climate to the D3 launch, a huge population of discovery owners hated it because of its high tech radical design. 110 MY23.5 X Dynamic HSE RR MY23 HSE PHEV D5 MY19 HSE - Now Sold D4 MY16 HSE Luxury - Now Sold D4 MY12 HSE - Gone D3 MY06 S - Gone but not forgotten |
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1st Feb 2020 11:29am |
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| Smilesapart Member Since: 28 Sep 2013 Location: Suffolk Posts: 735
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I completely agree with everything being said above. Whilst I really like the Design of the new Defender and think it’s a great Land Rover product I’d be very happy to own instead of a Freelander/Discovery/Discovery Sport, it is absolutely not a natural replacement for our beloved Defender and doesn’t have any ‘character’. I agree it will never become Iconic like the old one.
But I’m fairly certain I read this last Summer that there is a new company has formed that is producing a genuine Defender replacement that will be very true to the original while meeting modern safety/emission requirements. So maybe that will be the answer for many. I think the article was talking about the first ones being on the road in 2022. I can’t remember what the company was called. But it was somewhere up North |
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1st Feb 2020 12:11pm |
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| Bluest Member Since: 23 Apr 2016 Location: Lancashire Posts: 3997 
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That’ll be the Ineos Grenadier, we have whole section on the Forum for it
https://www.defender2.net/forum/ineos-grenadier-vf57.html 2007 110 TDCi Station Wagon XS |
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1st Feb 2020 12:16pm |
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