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grafty99



Member Since: 15 Aug 2012
Location: North Devon
Posts: 4784

United Kingdom 2002 Defender 90 Td5 HT Caledonian Blue
MOT test
I have a question to put out there and wondered if there were any MOT testers on the forum who might be able to give me an opinion.

I haven't been in touch with the dealer yet because I want to get as much information together as possible before I approach them.

A vehicle in the Grafton fleet has recently passed an MOT (at the dealership). The service manager, at handover, said that the front subframe on the vehicle was heavily corroded (with a hole) but not badly enough to fail. It was noted as an advisory on the MOT.

My dad was concerned about the rust and asked me to treat it all before they salt the roads to stop it getting worse.

Today I put the vehicle on our ramp and was quite surprised to see a hole about the size of a 50p piece about 150mm away from the lower wishbone mount Shocked

I was under the impression that any corrosion that weakened the vehicle structure to the point there was a hole (within 30cm of brakes, suspension, seatbelts etc) was an MOT failure?

If this is the case then the only reason I can think of that they passed it was that the vehicle is still under warranty AND has the extra MOT failure warranty that covers any failure items under the extra warranty plan.

What also concerns me is that the heat shield that protects the centre prop bearing had been torn and bent out of the way (now resting against the exhaust) to inspect the central bearing to investigate an odd noise under acceleration. This isn't the kind of service I'd be expecting from a main dealer. If anyone is able to help I could PM a picture of the corrosion.

Thanks in advance Thumbs Up 2002 90 Td5 Station Wagon
1990 Vogue SE
Triumph Tiger Explorer 1200
Td5 90 Thread http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic50767.html
Tdi 110 Thread https://www.defender2.net/forum/topic69562.html
RRC Thread http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic54492.html
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Post #808256 31st Dec 2019 5:42pm
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Co1



Member Since: 19 Aug 2018
Location: North Yorkshire
Posts: 3605

United Kingdom 2013 Defender 90 Puma 2.2 HT Loire Blue
Regardless of the MOT fail, I’d still be booking it in to get the corrosion sorted if it is under warranty. If you need the evidence and are prepared to stump up £55 or so, get another MOT done and see if they fail it.
Post #808258 31st Dec 2019 5:46pm
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Rashers



Member Since: 21 Jun 2015
Location: Norfolk
Posts: 3328

United Kingdom 2014 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 USW Corris Grey
I am not an MOT Tester Grafty, but that is how I understand corrosion is checked during an MOT.

Seems strange that the Dealer realised the corrosion was there. That would be the first place to check during the test?
Post #808260 31st Dec 2019 6:07pm
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excossack



Member Since: 22 Feb 2012
Location: North West
Posts: 5725

United Kingdom 1999 Defender 110 Td5 SW Caledonian Blue
With the car being under warranty, wouldn't a new subframe be in order & paid for by the dealer? 1999 Defender TD5 110

Regards
John M0VAZ
Econet Station 48 no clock
Post #808264 31st Dec 2019 7:33pm
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grafty99



Member Since: 15 Aug 2012
Location: North Devon
Posts: 4784

United Kingdom 2002 Defender 90 Td5 HT Caledonian Blue
Yes! That's my point. The warranty only covers MOT failure and I think they've advised to avoid paying out.

Direct from the government website

Click image to enlarge
 2002 90 Td5 Station Wagon
1990 Vogue SE
Triumph Tiger Explorer 1200
Td5 90 Thread http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic50767.html
Tdi 110 Thread https://www.defender2.net/forum/topic69562.html
RRC Thread http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic54492.html
Instagram http://www.instagram.com/george_grafton
Post #808276 31st Dec 2019 8:26pm
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grafty99



Member Since: 15 Aug 2012
Location: North Devon
Posts: 4784

United Kingdom 2002 Defender 90 Td5 HT Caledonian Blue
This is taken from the MOT handbook (all found online so probably have to be taken with a pinch of salt)

Corrosion and prescribed areas.

The Mot Tester’s manual,appendix C describes a prescribed area.

“Certain areas of the vehicle structure are particularly important for the safety of a vehicle. Particular attention must be paid to these areas during an inspection.

These areas are:
· The load bearing parts of the vehicle to which the testable items defined in Sections 2, 3 and 5 of the Inspection Manual are mounted, and
any load bearing or supporting structure or supporting panelling within 30cm of the mounting location.”

Sections 2,3 and 5 refer to steering and suspension, brakes and seatbelts.

Excessive corrosion is described as

· The corrosion has caused a hole in the metal, or

· it is weakened to the extent that by finger and thumb pressure it does not feel sound, or
· finger and thumb pressure or use of the Corrosion Assessment Tool causes a hole.



As I'm not an MOT tester I don't know. But from the way I read that, there is no grey area. It should have failed.

This line in particular

Excessive corrosion is described as

· The corrosion has caused a hole in the metal

I'll pop into our usual garage for the rest of our vehicles and see what they say Thumbs Up 2002 90 Td5 Station Wagon
1990 Vogue SE
Triumph Tiger Explorer 1200
Td5 90 Thread http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic50767.html
Tdi 110 Thread https://www.defender2.net/forum/topic69562.html
RRC Thread http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic54492.html
Instagram http://www.instagram.com/george_grafton
Post #808277 31st Dec 2019 8:32pm
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Procta



Member Since: 03 Dec 2016
Location: Sunderland
Posts: 4908

United Kingdom 
Re: MOT test
grafty99 wrote:
I have a question to put out there and wondered if there were any MOT testers on the forum who might be able to give me an opinion.

I haven't been in touch with the dealer yet because I want to get as much information together as possible before I approach them.

A vehicle in the Grafton fleet has recently passed an MOT (at the dealership). The service manager, at handover, said that the front subframe on the vehicle was heavily corroded (with a hole) but not badly enough to fail. It was noted as an advisory on the MOT.

My dad was concerned about the rust and asked me to treat it all before they salt the roads to stop it getting worse.

Today I put the vehicle on our ramp and was quite surprised to see a hole about the size of a 50p piece about 150mm away from the lower wishbone mount Shocked

I was under the impression that any corrosion that weakened the vehicle structure to the point there was a hole (within 30cm of brakes, suspension, seatbelts etc) was an MOT failure?

If this is the case then the only reason I can think of that they passed it was that the vehicle is still under warranty AND has the extra MOT failure warranty that covers any failure items under the extra warranty plan.

What also concerns me is that the heat shield that protects the centre prop bearing had been torn and bent out of the way (now resting against the exhaust) to inspect the central bearing to investigate an odd noise under acceleration. This isn't the kind of service I'd be expecting from a main dealer. If anyone is able to help I could PM a picture of the corrosion.

Thanks in advance Thumbs Up



I wouldn't go to a main dealer at all, grafty I have had a dealer mot tester fiddle with my rear number plate lights to make them fail. it never went back to Peugeot again, and I only did business with them as a very last resort, after that. If they passed it, I recon they wanted to wriggle out of sorting it out for the warranty. Pass it and its out of our hands sort of speak, Sometimes warranties are not really worth the paper. Defender TD5 90 ---/--- Peugeot 306 HDI hatch back

Success is 90% Inspiration and 4 minutes Preparation # you can make it!
Post #808302 1st Jan 2020 12:17am
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grafty99



Member Since: 15 Aug 2012
Location: North Devon
Posts: 4784

United Kingdom 2002 Defender 90 Td5 HT Caledonian Blue
I wouldn't either, except its still under warranty and my parents like to convince of everything in one place. As soon as the warranty expires (just before the next MOT as it happens Rolling Eyes) I'll be doing the servicing and our local garage will MOT it Thumbs Up 2002 90 Td5 Station Wagon
1990 Vogue SE
Triumph Tiger Explorer 1200
Td5 90 Thread http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic50767.html
Tdi 110 Thread https://www.defender2.net/forum/topic69562.html
RRC Thread http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic54492.html
Instagram http://www.instagram.com/george_grafton
Post #808304 1st Jan 2020 12:19am
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Procta



Member Since: 03 Dec 2016
Location: Sunderland
Posts: 4908

United Kingdom 
yeah that's true, as i say i think they just passed it so they didn't have to deal with it on the warranty side of things. Since my dads last MOT at his " favourite place" He will be doing his servicing now rather than them doing it. What a joke of a mot that was! Defender TD5 90 ---/--- Peugeot 306 HDI hatch back

Success is 90% Inspiration and 4 minutes Preparation # you can make it!
Post #808310 1st Jan 2020 1:00am
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excossack



Member Since: 22 Feb 2012
Location: North West
Posts: 5725

United Kingdom 1999 Defender 110 Td5 SW Caledonian Blue
grafty99 wrote:
Yes! That's my point. The warranty only covers MOT failure and I think they've advised to avoid paying out.

Direct from the government website

Click image to enlarge


I think would approach the main dealer direct (not the garage but HQ and see if this is covered under the corrosion warranty of the car) and they can foot the bill etc for swapping out. 1999 Defender TD5 110

Regards
John M0VAZ
Econet Station 48 no clock
Post #808349 1st Jan 2020 11:46am
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Mash



Member Since: 09 Feb 2015
Location: Guernsey
Posts: 1674

Guernsey 1998 Defender 90 300 Tdi HT Nato Green
I used to inspect vehicles to a slightly different standard but based on Vosa guidance.

Any corrosion within 30cm of a structural mounting point was deemed a fail, there is a proper approved corrosion inspection hammer too.

Reading the corrosion you have would of resulted in a fail as the subframe is part of the structure, if it had been a skid/bash plate bolted onto the subframe it would be an advisory.

Would pictures be possible Grafty? 90 wolf - Jasmin http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic39408.html
90 V8 - Maggie http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic42564.html
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Think I might have a problem............
Post #808357 1st Jan 2020 12:40pm
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grafty99



Member Since: 15 Aug 2012
Location: North Devon
Posts: 4784

United Kingdom 2002 Defender 90 Td5 HT Caledonian Blue
Yeah, can't do any harm I suppose.

As you can see, well within 30cm of the lower wishbone mount Shocked



Click image to enlarge
 2002 90 Td5 Station Wagon
1990 Vogue SE
Triumph Tiger Explorer 1200
Td5 90 Thread http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic50767.html
Tdi 110 Thread https://www.defender2.net/forum/topic69562.html
RRC Thread http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic54492.html
Instagram http://www.instagram.com/george_grafton
Post #808362 1st Jan 2020 2:14pm
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grafty99



Member Since: 15 Aug 2012
Location: North Devon
Posts: 4784

United Kingdom 2002 Defender 90 Td5 HT Caledonian Blue
In fact, the flash on the camera has picked out a hole on the other side by the looks of it.... 2002 90 Td5 Station Wagon
1990 Vogue SE
Triumph Tiger Explorer 1200
Td5 90 Thread http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic50767.html
Tdi 110 Thread https://www.defender2.net/forum/topic69562.html
RRC Thread http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic54492.html
Instagram http://www.instagram.com/george_grafton
Post #808364 1st Jan 2020 2:16pm
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gilarion



Member Since: 05 Dec 2013
Location: Wales
Posts: 5084

Wales 2007 Defender 90 Other CSW Trident Green
Graffty99 you are not on your own,
These are pictures of a chassis on a 1984 90 that passed its MOT a few years ago. A few months later I booked this 90 in for an exhaust replacement at Land Ranger and they informed me that if I were to tow a heavy fully loaded trailer the back of the chassis would snap off. Ended up having a chassis swap.



Click image to enlarge
 For those who like Welsh Mountains and narrow boats have a look at my videos and photos at..

http://www.youtube.com/user/conwy1
Post #808368 1st Jan 2020 2:28pm
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grafty99



Member Since: 15 Aug 2012
Location: North Devon
Posts: 4784

United Kingdom 2002 Defender 90 Td5 HT Caledonian Blue
Shocked 2002 90 Td5 Station Wagon
1990 Vogue SE
Triumph Tiger Explorer 1200
Td5 90 Thread http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic50767.html
Tdi 110 Thread https://www.defender2.net/forum/topic69562.html
RRC Thread http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic54492.html
Instagram http://www.instagram.com/george_grafton
Post #808375 1st Jan 2020 3:14pm
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