 | Home > General & Technical (L663) > Has anyone ordered one? |
 
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Joke.
| chalky Member Since: 09 May 2008 Location: Yorkshire Posts: 483   
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I’ve stopped going to the dealer and in return they have stopped phoning me to tell me me how fortunate I am in being selected for one of their amazing one off deals !
I can take some consolation from the fact that I have two other brands in the garage and they are just as bad if not worse than JLR, Although I don’t think there’s much to pick between any of them, I know how much the Diesel scandal has affected all manufacturers yet turning up at a dealers and trying to buy something is like platting fog ! That’s why I asked if you were using your local dealer as my experience with them is dire, and the service department was shocking, although at the time I think the head tech had just walked out ? DEFENDER XS CSW 08 TONGA GREEN |
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4th Jan 2020 9:17pm |
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| goodtimes Member Since: 04 Jan 2020 Location: Greenwich, CT Posts: 29 
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Oh dear here I go. I told myself I wouldn’t post on this site as I have never owned a Defender, and I respect your ownership community, but I thought I would share with AndrewS (and others interested) that the preliminary expected delivery date on my 110X is in late March. Do I believe that? No I don’t because I read that the first editions would be coming off first and also figured the other 110 variants would be delivered before any X’s but that is what my rep has told me (and he has a good reputation). We shall see, but I expect May/June. But now that I have the microphone, I would like to comment on the discourse surrounding the “Newfender”. To those who utilize Defenders for agricultural, commercial or enthusiast (off-roading) pursuits and are disenchanted with the price or redirection away from simple brawn toward a more comfortable yet still true sport utility vehicle: your opinions hold water and you represent the marginalized minority that I hope in the future will find an alternative within the JLR family in MY21+. To those who think it doesn’t look like a Defender quite right and lacks the hard edges and “militaristic look”: I think you’re a poser. But lastly, I would like to add another voice to those interested in the 2020 Defender. Up to and until this Defender, no vehicle currently exists on the American roads that I can confidently drive: (i) camping up in the Appalachians, (ii) onto the beaches of Southampton, (iii) to the office, (iv) stream-side for fly fishing, (v) up into Vermont on snowy days to go skiing, (vi) upstate NY to go shooting, and (vii) into Manhattan for the day. Of course plenty of 4x4 pick-up trucks are out there, but that’s just not me and I’m not driving that to the office (see iii). The world is changing, and thank God it is usually for the better despite what the news people like to say. If the test drive goes poorly or if early reports of gremlins accumulate rapidly, then all bets are off and I’ll be looking at a G wagon (ridiculous vehicles in my opinion also for posers) or something else less ideal. But I hope things go well so the adventures can begin. I hope the mods consider creating a place on this forum for owners of the new Defender because I believe the platform will expand to include a large and diverse population of owners, and what exactly is the cost of creating a small place for this out of the gate? |
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4th Jan 2020 11:35pm |
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| milesr3 Member Since: 12 Feb 2013 Location: Suffolk Posts: 873 
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There are 55 years between my two. They have many similarities and some parts are interchangeable. The newer one (on the left) is better but still familiar.  Click image to enlarge Park a new Defender alongside and it would look like it was manufactured by someone else. That's a great shame because otherwise, I would have ordered one. I don't hate the new one. I'm just deeply dissapointed by it. |
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5th Jan 2020 12:58am |
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| chalky Member Since: 09 May 2008 Location: Yorkshire Posts: 483
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Good times,
I’m pretty sure there is space within the current forum to co exist within the set up afforded by Martin who hosts several sites some of which I have frequented for well over a decade now. Most tend to co habit with each other although there ware some Remarks about the arrival of the D4 over on the DISCO3 site many moons ago when some folk “myself included” couldn’t see the difference between the two.... 
I have had the pleasure of meeting some great members along the way and although I don’t contribute quite as much as I used to I have found my way back here to try and glean some information on what I am hoping will be a vehicle that suits my requirements, reading your post above and having visited several of the regions / places that you have mentioned I couldn’t think of a more suitable vehicle........? Well maybe a Toyota FJ40 but let’s not go there...... Once this vehicle Eventually arrives and we all get to share it’s anomalies, recalls, rattles etc the sub section within the forum will begin to grow and the sharing of experiences can begin ! it’s unlikely we will get to visit the factory as we used to on the D3 forum for the annual exchange of local produce at Xmas but then there’s always the winter camping trip to blow away the cob webs. It’s important that we try and maintain a positive view on the horizon, looking back I know Land Rovers history and it’s vehicles of old, not so old and brand spanking new, the arrival of the New one should be embraced at least by us in this sub section as we anticipate something new, the future ! We’ve all seen the past let’s just remember that. DEFENDER XS CSW 08 TONGA GREEN |
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5th Jan 2020 1:14am |
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| JackW Member Since: 10 Jan 2017 Location: Roswell, Georgia Posts: 110 
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I'm planning on ordering a new Defender 110 as soon as I hear definitive word on whether or not we will see a diesel powered Defender in the USA market. I would prefer the six cylinder (which I know will not arrive before the 2021 model year) but would accept a D240 version - even though I think that is highly unlikely over here.
My third choice will be the P300 four cylinder version as I am not enthusiastic about the MHEV version of the six cylinder we will get over here. Mine will be an SE spec 110 with various upgrades to bring it up to HSE specifications (since the HSE will not be available with the 4 cylinder - but you can build one using the options sheet. I will have all of the off road options (except the external purse) and will probably cost a little over $70,000 the way I will equip it. I'm not upset at all with the appearance of the new truck - I knew that it would never bear more than a passing resemblance to the traditional Land Rover shape that we all love because the vehicle had to change drastically to meet modern safety requirements and even more importantly modern expectations. It has to be comfortable, capable and safe and I think they did a pretty good job. There are of course a few details that bother me but the interior looks fabulous and the exterior looks pretty good. I've owned 19 Land Rovers since I bought my first 1961 Series II 88" in 1972 - a Series 1 80", eight Series IIA Land Rovers, five Range Rover Classics, a Discovery 1, a Defender 90, an LR3 and a Discovery 5. I still own two Series IIA's, a Defender 90 and the D5 - the new Defender will replace the Discovery 5. The 2017 Discovery 5 TDV6 has been an outstanding daily driver and long trip road car - its currently showing a little over 33,000 miles and except for a couple of minor issues, it's been flawless, delivering 20 mpg around town and 30 mpg on the highway (US gallons - smaller than UK gallons). I can get from my home in Atlanta, GA to upstate New York - a distance of almost 1000 miles - on $80 worth of diesel fuel. Its quiet, comfortable and a great road car - I wouldn't want to give up that capability but the shorter overhangs, narrower width, rear door and shift lever instead of a rotary knob of the new 110 make it more attractive to me than the Discovery 5. I'll be keeping the older trucks too of course. I've recently spent two full days traveling back and forth to Land Rover events in my Defender 90 -its not a bad road trip car but we put 600 miles on it in one day in November and a little over 300 miles on it last Saturday (about 75 miles of that was on dirt roads). I've put well over 600,000 miles behind the wheel of some kind of a Land Rover since 1972. I'm looking forward to adding a new 110 to my driveway and I'll probably put around 16,000 miles on it in the first year. I'm guessing that its going to be a lot more comfortable than my D-90 or either of my two Series IIA's. What I think is that those who are very disappointed with the new vehicle will eventually grow to like it - remember that when the LR3 came out everybody initially hated it as well. I was one of the first ones in my Land Rover club to buy one and now there are about ten of them scattered through our members. Click image to enlarge |
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5th Jan 2020 3:49am |
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| Supacat Member Since: 16 Oct 2012 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 11018 
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Welcome - only thing I would wish to question is whether the shape had to change drastically for safety reasons?
For us on this side of the pond, safety can mean NCAP ratings. NCAP scores can be misleading, with points given for software systems rather than physical attributes. You make reference to safety. Look at the scores for the D5 vs the current Wrangler in terms of pedestrian safety: D5 Head impact = 15.5 points Pelvis impact = 4.1 points Leg impact = 6 points Wrangler Head impact = 13.4 points Pelvis impact = 6 points Leg impact = 4.5 points More points means safer. Hardly poles apart and proving the frontal design of the Wrangler does not mean much in terms of pedestrian safety. D5 is 5 stars and the Wrangler is 1 star. Just to add, the current G class has a higher pedestrian score than the D5, is also 5 stars and so again proves a slab fronted vehicle would have been perfectly acceptable... |
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5th Jan 2020 12:29pm |
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| chalky Member Since: 09 May 2008 Location: Yorkshire Posts: 483
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Jack, the safety aspect of the new vehicle was a major concern for both occupants and other road users, This is something of course which impacts massively on aesthetics, as the original discovery morphed into the 2, 3, 4 and laterally 5th series the shape changed in part due to the massive change in body On chassis being superseded by a more modern structural design, lighter, tighter etc, one of the reasons that your drive of 1,000 miles costs $80 is in part due to the coefficient drag factor, The air moves more freely over rounded surfaces, this also determines where creases, shuts and intakes are positioned. Some one will be along in a minute to scrutinise the CD factor of the new one with the old one, a jeep and a G wagon, I’m with you on the LR3 launch, it was reviled on it’s debut over here, I still bought one though. Also the D5 for all its faults, rear number plate ? Infotainment, I still bought one, mine did suffer from Oil dilution and when JLR blamed me for driving the vehicle wrong I quickly pointed out that they sold me the wrong vehicle as I told the sales guy exactly what I was using it for ! That was the end of that and after 13 services in less than 12 months I got shut ! I’ve been part of the advisory board sending in info and responding to queries over the past few years on the new Defender, I had an afternoon at Solihilull in Nov where I got to see the vehicle in great detail and meet some of the team who I had been missing with, I’m with you on the new one, I think it’s great and look forward to getting out and about in one..... DEFENDER XS CSW 08 TONGA GREEN |
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5th Jan 2020 2:00pm |
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| Stuff Member Since: 06 Feb 2017 Location: Between cradle and grave Posts: 41 |
Supacat, I agree. The new Defender shape is a LR design choice. The difference between the exterior and interior volume, particularly in respect of the rear load cabin and the hidden “D” pillar (the thing masked by the exterior plaque aft of the hindmost side door) is a LR engineering choice, and a product of an all-alu monocoque.
All choices involve compromise. I think they made the wrong choices. |
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5th Jan 2020 3:41pm |
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| JackW Member Since: 10 Jan 2017 Location: Roswell, Georgia Posts: 110
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Chalky - I'm on the advisory board as well - not that they will listen to a mere Colonial with 48 years and over 600K miles of Land Rover experience.
I sure wouldn't want to have a major accident in any of my old Land Rovers but I have felt reasonably protected in the later model trucks - so safety is a key requirement for me, especially since the rise of the dreaded cell phones... The new Defender won't replace any of my old trucks - it will replace the 2017 Discovery 5 - but it will become the primary transportation in our household, a job I expect it to perform very, very well. I expect the differences between the D5 and the new Defender will show up with some increased ability off road in favor of the Defender (narrower and shorter overhangs) which will help enormously with the type of off road adventures I usually do. My old LR3 is in the hands of a good friend now and is performing very well. I took delivery of the first TDV6 Discovery 5 in the southeastern US. I had pre-ordered it and the dealer worked it into the initial batch that they had ordered to stock their showroom. I took delivery May 30, 2017 and other than a faulty air conditioning condensor, a leaky windshield sealant and the oil dilution issue (which was quickly solved with a software patch over here fairly early in its first summer) - the Discovery has been faultless. I have taken it off road a few times but haven't wanted to use it for that too much (that's what my TDi D90 is for). It has proved to be very capable - it just cruised up a steep hill climb that several other trucks completely failed to ascend. I'm mostly worried that the eco-nazis over here have spoiled the work that Land Rover has done to give us a modern diesel - massive torque at 1400 rpm is just so addicting when you are greenlaning. How is the four cylinder Ingenium petrol engine performing over there? I've driven a Velar with that motor but only for a short distance. It seemed adequate for the street but I wonder how it will perform off road. It may be my only choice for a 110 and I'm concerned that it will seem puny in a bigger vehicle towing a caravan. |
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5th Jan 2020 10:44pm |
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| chalky Member Since: 09 May 2008 Location: Yorkshire Posts: 483
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Jack, I’m sure they have taken some Of our ramblings on board, I can’t help feel a bit guilty for the middle front seat,
I had mentioned it in my correspondence as I had done this with my Dad whilst out shooting as a lad, naturally I did the same in my 90, I’ve seen it mentioned on a pre release video that I think Henry Catchpole did where he mentioned he’d done the same as a lad, so I can’t take the glory for that but sure it wasn’t just me who rode this way in the 70’s ! Mine will replace the wife’s Tiguan, I hope...... although she’s only had it since November she’s become very attached to it, it’s the 2.0 diesel so I won’t go into the emissions as your state side I’m sure that you are well versed in the whole saga,
As you’re driving a modern diesel I’m sure you will acknowledge the fact that there is zero foul smelling gasses coming out of the exhausts, it’s really noticeable on older vehicles now especially in winter from cold, my neighbours car stinks but 5 years ago every diesel did this, we spoke about this at Xmas with the offending driver / neighbour as they came round to bother us for a few hours, after upsetting Him about his log burner I then mentioned the car, we came to the conclusion that it was like the smoking ban Of about 10 years ago, waking up the morning after a night out and not smelling of fag smoke was revolutionary, now when you smell a smoker having a fag it’s really noticeable, like older diesels smelling and creating black smoke. Any way....... I think I’ll plump for the 6 Cylinder petrol, in 90 guise, I’m not sure about the 4 cylinder Ingenium 
I’m currently enjoying a 5 litre supercharged V8 which has All but restored my faith In the brand, the RRS itself is a fantastic vehicle to spend any journey in, the comfort is outstanding and effortless to drive as long as you keep it in normal mode, sport mode changes it from the sublime to the ridiculous........ so I don’t use that often 😬 the Rev counter goes one way and the fuel needle goes the other, DEFENDER XS CSW 08 TONGA GREEN |
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6th Jan 2020 1:50am |
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| Arctic Member Since: 25 Aug 2010 Location: Europe Posts: 45 |
Have there been many DPF issues with Land Rover's latest Diesel engines? Shorter journeys seem to be a problem for all modern diesel vehicles. It is hard to find a good utility vehicle, other than a van, suitable for short journeys.
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6th Jan 2020 11:03am |
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| Zed Member Since: 07 Oct 2017 Location: In the woods Posts: 3014 
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https://stormcatcher.co.uk/resources/land-...-dilution/
https://www.rangeroverdpf.com https://www.thecarexpert.co.uk/forums/topi...-problems/ WARNING. This post may contain sarcasm. |
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6th Jan 2020 11:15am |
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| Naks Member Since: 27 Jan 2009 Location: Stellenbosch, ZA Posts: 2588  
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I would replace my 2010 Defender and my 2015 RRS Supercharged with the new Defender in a heartbeat, especially since from this year onwards we will be living in two countries, thus two vehicles in one spot is a waste.
but the Mrs hates the new one... here's my build: https://build.landrover/E694D1F7 -- 2010 Defender Puma 90 + BAS remap + Alive IC + Slickshift + Ashcroft ATB rear 2015 Range Rover Sport V8 Supercharged
Defender Puma Workshop Manual: https://bit.ly/2zZ1en9 Discovery 4 Workshop Manual: https://bit.ly/2zXrtKO Range Rover/Sport L320/L322/L494 Workshop Manual: https://bit.ly/2zc58JQ |
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6th Jan 2020 11:56am |
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| zilch Member Since: 11 Sep 2019 Location: Whitsundays & Sydney Posts: 781 
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still waiting on a call forward date for my order to build, first told November, then December.. i think a June delivery
will be optimistic indeed I have ordered the following (minus the side bin, roof rack is subject to availability of
front runner roof rack release in OZ which is a cheaper option, or i am stuck with ordering the expedition rack). [url] https://buildyour.landrover.com/lr2/r/summ...0URL[/url] In regard to DPF oil dilution issues, my bro-in-law who bought the sis in law a new CX5 has said on the Mazda forums they are up in arms over the problem. He has yet has not suffered any adverse affects, but many are, horror stories from a number of forums for other manufacturers including Toyota etc. Hopefully the 6 cylinder petrol (GPF) will not suffer the same problems. yet another pommie bar steward down under MY20 110 P400 SE Defender MY10 3.0 RR Sport Last edited by zilch on 7th Jan 2020 10:11am. Edited 2 times in total |
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7th Jan 2020 9:58am |
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