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kjmeijer



Member Since: 09 Apr 2012
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 77

Netherlands 2016 Defender 90 Puma 2.2 Black LE Java Black
2.2 tdci oil level & warning light

I am not sure on the oil level of my 2.2 tdci. When parking on a ramp the oil light came on a few times the last days. No oil under the car. Dipstick showed about no oil.

I have just put about 2.5 litres oil in the engine an the dipstick looks like on the picture. More oil needed I think but at what level the oil warning light is switched on?



Click image to enlarge
 2016 Defender 90

Post #851416 22nd Aug 2020 11:53am
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ozzie1989



Member Since: 25 Feb 2009
Location: Wales
Posts: 263

Wales 2010 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 USW Bonatti Grey

If the oil pressure warning light comes on then that indicates there was not enough oil in the engine to sustain the correct pressure, or a pump failure etc. This can cause damage depending on how long it occured before the engine was stopped.

I think there is around 1 litre between bottom and top of the dipstick so this would suggest you had lost a significant amount of oil somewhere, or it hasn't been checked in a long time.

Worth checking turbo etc. to ensure that's not on it's way out. Have you noticed any smoke from the exhaust? Now: 2010 2.4 TDCi 110 Utility Wagon
Then: 2004 2.5 TD5 90 Hard Top (X-Tech Edition)

Post #851423 22nd Aug 2020 12:19pm
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jst



Member Since: 14 Jan 2008
Location: Taunton
Posts: 6552

2011 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 USW Stornoway Grey

I too was under the impression 1l from max to min on dipstick.

Add another 500ml.

To me that oil looks like it needs a change.

3l that would be, engine takes 7l is it? Cheers

James
110 XS Utility
130 Puma Station wagon/camper (in the making)
90 Puma Hardtop

Post #851437 22nd Aug 2020 2:56pm
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Ianh



Member Since: 17 Sep 2018
Location: Essex
Posts: 150

United Kingdom 

Oil level dropping on a 2.2 does indicate a problem as normally it increases due to the dpf regeneration process. I would check sump plug, oil filter, under engine and where engine meets gearbox for signs of oil leakage first.
Then do a full oil and filter change( that oil has been working hard as it’s 3l short in the engine) make sure its at top level, run engine for five mins, let engine cool for 15 mins then check oil level again and top up if required.
Take truck for a 15 min drive , on return park up and place a large piece of clean cardboard under engine and gearbox, this will show up any oil dripping far better than if it drips on a drive or road and and help in identifying where it’s coming from.
If no drips and level continues dropping then it must be being burnt so as ozzie1989 says keep an eye out for black smoke from exhaust.

Post #851441 22nd Aug 2020 3:42pm
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macfrank



Member Since: 05 Nov 2015
Location: somewhere in the north
Posts: 429

Germany 2015 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 SW Keswick Green

It's two litres between min and max!

Quote:
More oil needed I think but at what level the oil warning light is switched on?

As above, it's an oil pressure warning. There is no oil level sensor! (well there is, the oil temperature sensor could do that but LR decided not to use it...)

Post #851488 22nd Aug 2020 8:27pm
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discomog



Member Since: 09 May 2015
Location: Notts/Lincs Border
Posts: 2037

United Kingdom 2015 Defender 90 Puma 2.2 XS CSW Santorini Black

Just a slight correction with regards to the colour of exhaust smoke. If the engine is burning oil then it will be blue/grey smoke not black. Black smoke is indicative of unburnt fuel. Santorini 90XS SW
Discovery Sport
Morgan Plus 8

Post #851526 23rd Aug 2020 7:24am
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qwert



Member Since: 26 Aug 2010
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 28

2015 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 Heritage Edition SW Grasmere Green

Hmmm. Good that you noticed a warning light. I would not mind if there was a warning sound as well.

Post #851595 23rd Aug 2020 3:45pm
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Supacat



Member Since: 16 Oct 2012
Location: West Yorkshire
Posts: 8422

United Kingdom 2013 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 XS DCPU Keswick Green

macfrank wrote:
It's two litres between min and max!

Quote:
More oil needed I think but at what level the oil warning light is switched on?

As above, it's an oil pressure warning. There is no oil level sensor! (well there is, the oil temperature sensor could do that but LR decided not to use it...)




Yes, odd that there is a combined oil level and temperature sensor fitted and whilst the level sensor is not used the temperature sensor is used:

"The oil level and temperature sensor is installed in the cylinder block skirt stiffener, mid-way along the RH (right-hand) side of the engine.
The oil level signal is not used, as a mechanical dip stick is fitted.
The ECM uses the oil temperature signal to control the engine oil temperature. In extreme operation the ECM limits engine torque to prevent the oil temperature exceeding 140 °C (284 °F)."
(from Workshop Manual)

It's interesting that with that much oil missing from the system of the OP's vehicle that the temperature did not exceed the threshold stated and so limited engine torque in a way apparent to the OP; or perhaps it did and OP did not connect the two?

Also begs the question if the level sensor is there why it's not used to give an extra level of protection. If it's engineered into the wrong part of the engine and may give false reading when off road at extreme angles, then surely the temp element of the same sensor would suffer the same issue?

Post #851666 24th Aug 2020 8:29am
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macfrank



Member Since: 05 Nov 2015
Location: somewhere in the north
Posts: 429

Germany 2015 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 SW Keswick Green

Good question(s). Maybe a level sensor is better placed in the sump pan? And when would you read that level? Only with engine "cold" as with the dipstick? Also a sensor requires a software to interpret its signal, write DTCs and display a "panic" signal to the driver Wink Only thing I don't like about the dipstick is I find it hard to read because of this zigzag pattern...

Post #851677 24th Aug 2020 9:45am
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blackwolf



Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 12060

United Kingdom 2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Stornoway Grey

If the oil level is so low that the oil is no longer in contact with the sensor it won't flag up any overheat warnings.

Post #851685 24th Aug 2020 11:28am
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Supacat



Member Since: 16 Oct 2012
Location: West Yorkshire
Posts: 8422

United Kingdom 2013 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 XS DCPU Keswick Green

Good point.

If you were designing the function, hopefully you'd take account of high temp as a result of volume loss and place the senor accordingly.

I am rather assuming that if the volume of oil decreases the temperature rises ~ maybe it doesn't and the reduced oil volume just doesn't cool some parts.

Post #851691 24th Aug 2020 12:20pm
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blackwolf



Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 12060

United Kingdom 2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Stornoway Grey

It would not be a problem if the level and temp sensors were used since the level sensor would go berserk before the temp sensor was uncovered.

The design (Ford) is fine, the error is in only using one sensor of the two provided by design. Clearly an unimaginative and generally gormless person at Landrover failed to carry out an FMEA on this. No surprise there.

Post #851694 24th Aug 2020 12:32pm
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Julie



Member Since: 07 Oct 2017
Location: Nantes
Posts: 174

France 2012 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 SW Keswick Green

Have you ever thought about off road use ? Sheep

That's why they changed the oil sump for instance. They did it even twice Whistle
And I would not like the engine warning light (and the limp mode) to come up while I am at 45° inclination on a hill.
There are at least a few things I'd never do with a Transit van ... that I do with the Land Rover

But that's just my opinion.

Post #851802 24th Aug 2020 8:45pm
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Supacat



Member Since: 16 Oct 2012
Location: West Yorkshire
Posts: 8422

United Kingdom 2013 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 XS DCPU Keswick Green

Yes ~ I even referred to it in my post. Ner Ner

If a warning light is going to put you off whilst on a 45° inclination on a hill, I can't imagine what a seized engine will do!

Post #851830 25th Aug 2020 6:45am
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blackwolf



Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 12060

United Kingdom 2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Stornoway Grey

Julie wrote:
Have you ever thought about off road use ? Sheep

That's why they changed the oil sump for instance. They did it even twice Whistle
And I would not like the engine warning light (and the limp mode) to come up while I am at 45° inclination on a hill.
There are at least a few things I'd never do with a Transit van ... that I do with the Land Rover

But that's just my opinion.


There are plenty of ways to manage this aspect, for example to read the level at engine start only, to include a tilt sensor on the vehicle (not expensive), or simply to persist the reading over a suitable period. It is for example rare that you have the vehicle running on a 45 degree tilt for half an hour.

That being said, the problem arises because one sensor is used and not both. Best of all would be to use neither and derive the oil temperature indication from a more sensible location.

There are, sadly, many features of the adaptation of the Ford engine and gearbox into the Defender which rather force you to the conclusion that the job was done on a very tight budget, rather than being properly engineered.

Post #851890 25th Aug 2020 10:48am
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