 | Home > Puma (Tdci) > Output shaft - updated genuine or Ashcroft? |
 
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| John64 Member Since: 10 Sep 2018 Location: Tayport Posts: 38   
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I am also interested in peoples experience with this shaft vs genuine
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8th Jan 2019 11:32am |
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| WindyJ Member Since: 18 Oct 2018 Location: France Posts: 190 |
Dont think there is much of a price difference? I’ve done a lot of research as my defender came with a boxed Ashcroft kit. I’m going to fit it when I do the clutch. What I have learnt is there does not seem to be many, if any cases of the Ashcroft kit failing but there are reports of the JLR one, the latest one, doing so.
Logically both should be fine but Ashcroft uses oil rather than grease and that’s always going to do a better job imho. Only real recommendations for the JLR ones seem to be from people who sell it whereas it’s the customers praising the Ashcroft. |
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8th Jan 2019 11:53am |
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| deaallen Member Since: 15 Feb 2016 Location: Basingstoke Posts: 263  
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Ashcroft is around £350 with VAT
https://www.ashcroft-transmissions.co.uk/m...t-kit.html Genuine is around £160 with VAT https://lofclutches.com/shop/tdci/tdci-out...75346d9f50 |
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8th Jan 2019 11:57am |
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| WindyJ Member Since: 18 Oct 2018 Location: France Posts: 190 |
Ok, well that is a bigger difference for some reason I thought Ashcroft was the £200 mark. Luckily I didn’t sell it for £130 I was offered and thought about a while back!
On weighing up the research I did, if I had to buy, I think I’d go with the Ashcroft though even at the full price...though would um and ahh about it more. |
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8th Jan 2019 12:25pm |
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| jst Member Since: 14 Jan 2008 Location: Taunton Posts: 7682 
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I would and have fitted the Ashcroft one in pref. Cheers
James 110 XS Utility 130 Puma Station wagon/camper (in the making) 90 Puma Hardtop |
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8th Jan 2019 12:50pm |
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| ashtrans Site Sponsor Member Since: 08 Nov 2008 Location: Harpenden Posts: 254
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A subject I have learned quite alot about in the last few years !
we are now on our 4th version of this kit, the first 3 suffering from occasional random leaks which took us a while to resolve, I naively assumed the MT82 output shaft would be inline with the LT230 input gear or at least fairly close as the adapter casting between the MT82 and LT230 is doweled front and rear. It turns out they are not inline and some have quite an error so the LT230 input gear is holding the rear of the shaft to the side, try and visualise what this error means to the male and female spline (the one that wears) at the front of the shaft. the faces of the spline are rubbing up and down against eachother dry, hence the wear. There has been lots of debate in the past as to what models and years wear, I this the model and year are irrelevant as it depends were you fall in the tolerance range, some never fail ie these have minimal error, some fail every 25K, these would be way out. I cannot categorically say that some are out of tolerance as I dont have the engineering drawings but I would suggest many are way out. next question is what to do about it : its not easy to correct this error so it has to be 'managed' in some way, a) assemble with new parts and fancy blue LR grease, better than dry, will last longer but not a long term fix as grease will solidify over time and it will wear again b) drill and fit grease nipples, better but will need topping up from time to time and I dont think grease will flow around the length of every spline as well as oil would. c) fit our kit, we have sold over 2000 now and yes we have had some early ones leak but on our latest design this has been resolved and I have never seen one wear out and fail. Dave Dave |
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8th Jan 2019 12:55pm |
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| Roy5695 Member Since: 15 Feb 2014 Location: Cornwall Posts: 1123 
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I went with an updated LR one. No problems as of yet. Luke at LOF keeps all the parts you require in stock and is more than willing to answer any questions you will have. 2011 Defender DCPU 2.2 - https://www.defender2.net/forum/topic30623.html
Instagram - @r22oyp Roy |
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8th Jan 2019 12:58pm |
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| hank Member Since: 12 Sep 2016 Location: South Wales Posts: 2224  
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I fitted Ashcroft when replacing the clutch and so far very happy
Yes there is a price difference but this outweighs the cost of doing it again and again if you intend to keep hold of the vehicle for at length of time > 110 XS Double Cab > Instagram @simonlanemind |
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8th Jan 2019 1:15pm |
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| Zed Member Since: 07 Oct 2017 Location: In the woods Posts: 3009 
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I went with a LOF uprated clutch and Ashcroft output shaft and the result was a revelation.
Couldn't be happier. |
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8th Jan 2019 1:43pm |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 16857
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Dave, a very interesting post! I have thought for years (and been expressing my view on this forum for years) that a misalignment exists on some vehicles, causing accelerated fretting and wear. In reality there is no other explanation why some shafts last 6k miles and others 250k+ miles. The only credible explanation is a tolerance problem and in effect some shafts "waggle" when running. I think that another cause of premature failure is the spring ring not retaining the shaft in place properly. Some, undoubtedly, are not assembled properly, but I have also wondered if a waggling shaft can work its way out overcoming the (rather feeble) retaining ring. You conclusions are therefore very welcome confirmation of what I have always believed. It also suggests that the root cause if you suffer from shaft failures is the combination of gearbox, transfer box, and/or adaptor casing that you have rather than the shaft itself, and also suggests that if you suffer accelerated wear with your first shaft any subsequent shaft is also likely to wear (although your kit will at least mean that the shaft is lubricated properly). Similarly if you are lucky enough to have a good combination of boxes, you will probably be safe for very high mileages and any replacement shaft will also last a long time. I wonder if it is the MT82, the LT230, or the adaptor casing that has the bigger tolerance problem, or if it is a case of accumulated maxima. I last changed my clutch at 150k miles and at that time my original ex-factory joint was bone dry but a perfect fit (a better fit in fact that the brand new parts I had bought from LR just in case). At the same time I changed the transfer box for a low-mileage second-hand one out of a write-off due to the whining noise my original box was making, and refitted the original shaft but greased the joint very thoroughly. I have now done a further 80k miles or so and the clutch again needs changing, so it will be interesting to see how the shaft has fared since the last change. My gut says that the part most likely to be made on the cheap is the adaptor housing. It would be interesting to have some way to do a dimensional survey of a reasonable sample of these. |
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8th Jan 2019 1:51pm |
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| ashtrans Site Sponsor Member Since: 08 Nov 2008 Location: Harpenden Posts: 254
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not only the cost of doing it again but it may fail at a bad time, ie all loaded up with your family about to set off on summer holiday, hard to put a price on this. Dave |
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8th Jan 2019 1:56pm |
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| hornet Member Since: 04 Jan 2010 Location: Western Europe Posts: 319 |
Thanks for the clarification, that finally explains the mistake! But at the same time it also means that gluing the connection would be extremely bad in the case of higher tolerances of the shafts! |
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8th Jan 2019 1:57pm |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 16857
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I agree completely. I am even more concerned that it may fail at a lethal time. It is not hard to think of scenarios when a complete unexpected loss of drive vastly increases your chance of an horrific and premature death. It saddens me that LR has never taken this problem seriously. There again, even the problem of front hubs breaking off the axle wasn't really taken especially seriously. |
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8th Jan 2019 2:01pm |
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| JOW240725 Member Since: 04 May 2015 Location: Suffolk Posts: 7873 
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As well as the above useful replies, try searching "output shaft" there are several very good lengthy thread on this Puma weakness. I'm on my third in 60k miles, if this one goes in the few years I will go Ashcroft. James
MY2012 110 2.2TDCi XS SW Orkney Grey - http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic43410.html MY1990 110 200TDi SW beautifully faded Portofino Red - https://www.defender2.net/forum/post743641.html#743641 MY1984 90 V8 Slate Grey - https://www.defender2.net/forum/post744557.html#744557 Instagram @suffolk_rovers |
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8th Jan 2019 2:16pm |
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