 | Home > Puma (Tdci) > no drive at all - output shaft dies @ 65 000 km |
 
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| bpman Member Since: 21 May 2008 Location: Oslo Posts: 8069  
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Given that the failure gives absolutely no warning and can completely disable the vehicle should it not be subject to a recall in the same way bmw have been shamed this week?
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11th May 2018 6:58am |
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| UtilityTruck Member Since: 09 Jan 2014 Location: Oxford Posts: 463 
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Well, nobody died... 2014 Keswick Utility 2.2
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11th May 2018 7:17am |
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| bpman Member Since: 21 May 2008 Location: Oslo Posts: 8069
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Oh I get it, someone needs to be killed before it’s taken seriously
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11th May 2018 7:24am |
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| Pickles Member Since: 26 May 2013 Location: Melbourne Posts: 3751  
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It happened to us, not in a really remote area, but about 300klms from home, ,....in 30C temps, took 4+ hrs for LR assist to get to us...DEVASTATING, We felt absolutely helpless,....I cannot imagine what a total loss of drive would be like in a REALLY remote area. Pickles. |
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11th May 2018 7:53am |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 16855 
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I have often thought this. What would happen, for example, if it failed as you pulled a heavy trailer onto a level crossing? Landrover has, in my opinion, an extremely cavalier attitude to vehicle recalls and manages - somehow - to get away with dangerous faults by means of service actions and "only do it if the customer complains" type repairs. The number of total drive failures due to the flawed implementation of what should be a simple and well understood drive coupling is by any standards appalling and it continues to surprise me that a recall has been avoided. Some high profile deaths would undoubtedly help. |
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11th May 2018 8:22am |
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| zsd-puma Member Since: 09 Aug 2016 Location: Kent Posts: 2720 
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you get out and use the emergency telephone on the crossing. Signalman puts a block on the line. Unless you were daft enough to race the lights, theres plenty of time for trains to stop. But yes you're right, its appalling customer service from Land Rover. |
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11th May 2018 11:19am |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 16855
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Not necessarily. If the train strikes in at the moment of shaft failure it is very unlikely that the train could be stopped in time. |
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11th May 2018 12:19pm |
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| zsd-puma Member Since: 09 Aug 2016 Location: Kent Posts: 2720
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That would only happen if you'd been racing the lights.
They do take into account that pedestrians could fall over, road vehicles could run out of fuel, have an engine failure or have clutch failure when they set the timings for the signals. If it's a manual crossing, you have to phone the signalman first, and phone again when you're clear. If you don't phone back they order the train to proceed with caution at reduced speed - to cover just such an eventuality. There's probably more of a risk if it failed on a busy motorway. |
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11th May 2018 3:18pm |
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| dorsetsmith Member Since: 30 Oct 2011 Location: South West Posts: 4554 |
Julie
Surprisingly, the MT82 shaft is not the first "dry shaft" in the history of the defender. Land Rover made the same mistake with the LT77 / Defender TDI 200: MT 82 is ford gearbox sham ford made the same mistake  |
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11th May 2018 3:31pm |
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| diduan Member Since: 13 Oct 2016 Location: Central Balkan Posts: 260 
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I had the same issue with the output shaft last year, luckily only 5kms from home
But you can hear it dying, it made click-click sounds some days before it actually died. Most noticeable when maneuvering in 1st gear, then reverse etc. Greetings, Delyan Defender 110 SW MY2011 2.4tdci decat, no EGR Jeep Wrangler YJ 1990 4.0. Front 78' Dana 60, Rear CUCV 14 bolt |
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11th May 2018 3:35pm |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 16855
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There is nothing fundamentally wrong with the MT82, it is a good gearbox (unless you're a Mustang owner, of course), and (apart from being the parent of JLR at the time) Ford had nothing to with the output adaptor shaft design, that was all down to the JLR team tasked with fitting the Ford engine and primary gearbox into the Defender. Nothing about the installation was particularly good, unfortunately, from fuel system to output adaptor shaft to CANbus hack. |
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11th May 2018 3:41pm |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 16855
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Sorry to labour this point, but rail industry standards* specify that the minimum time from a train 'striking in' and commencing the closure sequence of an automatic crossing to it arriving at the crossing is 27 seconds. If you are on the crossing and suffer a complete loss of drive as the train strikes in, and the train is travelling at maximum permitted line speed, you have may have only 27 seconds to get clear of the crossing. By the time you have stopped, cursed, tried the difflock, wondered what to do next, and looked helplessly around for a telephone, you will be dead. If you have great presence of mind and are really on the ball you and your family will be clear of the crossing by the time your Defender is obliterated. Very few crossings are protected by signals (usually only in the case that the crossing is in advance of a station) and there is no power on earth that will stop such a train before it reaches the crossing. * Specifically Railway Group Standard GI/RT7012, which has now been superseded, although he minimum timings have not as far as I know changed. |
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11th May 2018 3:59pm |
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| zsd-puma Member Since: 09 Aug 2016 Location: Kent Posts: 2720
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Most of the crossings I've seen start the warning lights and lower the barriers long before the train arrives, certainly in this area, I'd bet only a handful of crossings actually use bang on the 'minimum' timing. Stopping the train is simply a case of the signalman making a REC to all trains in the area ordering the driver of train xxxx to make an emergency stop, it comes out over the cab speaker of all train in the area. Emergency phones are pretty obvious yellow boxes on both sides of the crossings.
I still think there would be a much greater risk if you lost drive in the middle lane of a busy motorway. I experienced this in an old Volvo when the throttle cable snapped. Most people aren't willing to give way to you when you're trying to coast to the hard shoulder. |
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11th May 2018 4:44pm |
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| zsd-puma Member Since: 09 Aug 2016 Location: Kent Posts: 2720
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Agreed, they just bought in the gearboxes from Ford, then Land Rover worked out how to marry the Land Rover transfer box with the Transit/Ranger gearbox. The Ranger doesn't suffer the same issue with the gearbox/transferbox interface that the Defender does, because Ford/Getrag designed the whole transmission. If it had been down to Ford, then I've no doubt Land Rover would have got it sorted more quickly, as they'd have claimed the cost of it from Ford. Land Rover should have come up with a solution much more quickly though I mean they had 9 years. Even if they sealed the adaptor shaft housing and fitted filler/drain bungs so it could be filled it with oil! |
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11th May 2018 4:52pm |
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