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DSC-off



Member Since: 16 Oct 2014
Location: North East
Posts: 1342

United Kingdom 2015 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 XS CSW Aintree Green
"Premium Durability" - discuss
Buzz word of the moment from JLR regarding the Defender replacement is Premium Durability.

My expectations for any vehicle is that it is fit for purpose, regardless of the cost.
To me Premium Durability suggests there is a premium price to be paid for a vehicle that is durable, ie capable of performing the tasks it is intended for.

A vehicle fit for purpose, that does not necessarily require a premium price.
So that leads me to think the L663 Defender will be foremost a premium priced vehicle, with durability added.

What are your thoughts on this?
Post #704892 2nd May 2018 9:06pm
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milesr3



Member Since: 12 Feb 2013
Location: Suffolk
Posts: 873

2016 Defender 90 Puma 2.2 XS CSW Keswick Green
Premium: relating to or denoting a commodity of superior quality and therefore a higher price.

Durability: able to resist wear, decay, etc., well; lasting; enduring.

I would buy and pay a premium for this, but I don't believe that the profit margins will allow it. It's nothing more than a marketing aspiration.
Post #704907 2nd May 2018 9:41pm
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Zed



Member Since: 07 Oct 2017
Location: In the woods
Posts: 3000

United Kingdom 2010 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 XS CSW Santorini Black
Advertising and marketing slogans, taglines, buzzwords and catchphrases. Used frequently enough can embed in a customer's subconscious whether true or not.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advertising_slogan

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tagline


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Post #704936 3rd May 2018 5:44am
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o4dn



Member Since: 08 Jan 2010
Location: South West
Posts: 529

France 2009 Defender 90 Puma 2.4 SW Alaska White
What puzzles me, and sorry in advance if that hurts some feelings here, is that Land Rover scores very low in each and every car reliability survey.

I was reading the other day a survey about car reliability ran by an independent consumer magazine here in France, and LR ranks down #27.

Low-cost makes such such as Dacia are much higher in the list (#11), for the fraction of the cost!

Another recent survey in the UK ranked the Peugeot 3008 as the best car to own:

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/best-cars/dri...18-results

Not a single British make in the top 10... So, I wonder what "premium durability" means for LR, reliability or overpriced vehicles. “A Land Rover immobilized is a moral defeat for the driver and bad publicity for the vehicle, […] it's up to you to do justice to your Land Rover!” - Land Rover Driving Technique.
--
2009 2.4 Puma Defender 90 SW
1979 Land Rover Series 3 88"
Post #704952 3rd May 2018 8:00am
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milesr3



Member Since: 12 Feb 2013
Location: Suffolk
Posts: 873

2016 Defender 90 Puma 2.2 XS CSW Keswick Green
IIRC the Disco Sport ended up in the bottom ten of the latest Driver Power survey with 50% of owners reporting engine problems in the first year of ownership. I would have thought that the DS was a relatively 'safe' ownership compared to something with more complex electronics, air suspension etc.

Our MY16 Defender is showing the usual signs of wear and tear; some corrosion issues, a faulty electric window and a leaky swivel. It's nothing like as durable as my 57 year old Series 2 and will not be here in another 50-odd years time. My daily-driver Mercedes is on a whole different level in terms of quality. At the moment there is quite a gulf between the current JLR product and something with premium durability.
Post #704962 3rd May 2018 8:47am
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discomog



Member Since: 09 May 2015
Location: Notts/Lincs Border
Posts: 2494

United Kingdom 2015 Defender 90 Puma 2.2 XS CSW Santorini Black
Well I have to say that my two current Land Rovers have been extremely reliable. My 2015 Defender has only had one minor problem, a faulty horn and after three years there is evidence of corrosion on the rear folding step and one of the rock sliders. The dealer is in discussion with JLR about a warranty claim on these items. I'm hoping for a decision before Christmas Rolling with laughter

My 2017 Discovery Sport has been trouble free in the first 12 months. Previous Land Rover products (Defender 300Tdi, D3 and D4 have also been relatively trouble free). Defender 90XS SW
Mini Countryman Cooper S
Morgan Plus 8
Post #704964 3rd May 2018 9:14am
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markalpha



Member Since: 23 Apr 2008
Location: Downham Market
Posts: 690

England 2013 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 XS CSW Santorini Black
Premium Durability another example of Fake News!
Post #704967 3rd May 2018 9:35am
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ibexman



Member Since: 13 Dec 2008
Location: kent
Posts: 2871

United Kingdom 
Re: "Premium Durability" - discuss
DSC-off wrote:
Buzz word of the moment from JLR regarding the Defender replacement is Premium Durability.

My expectations for any vehicle is that it is fit for purpose, regardless of the cost.
To me Premium Durability suggests there is a premium price to be paid for a vehicle that is durable, ie capable of performing the tasks it is intended for.

A vehicle fit for purpose, that does not necessarily require a premium price.
So that leads me to think the L663 Defender will be foremost a premium priced vehicle, with durability added.

What are your thoughts on this?


What planet are you on Rolling with laughter
Post #704968 3rd May 2018 9:42am
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Grenadier



Member Since: 23 Jul 2014
Location: The foot of Mont Blanc...
Posts: 5765

France 2011 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Corris Grey
o4dn wrote:
What puzzles me, and sorry in advance if that hurts some feelings here, is that Land Rover scores very low in each and every car reliability survey.

I was reading the other day a survey about car reliability ran by an independent consumer magazine here in France, and LR ranks down #27.

Low-cost makes such such as Dacia are much higher in the list (#11), for the fraction of the cost!

Another recent survey in the UK ranked the Peugeot 3008 as the best car to own:

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/best-cars/dri...18-results

Not a single British make in the top 10... So, I wonder what "premium durability" means for LR, reliability or overpriced vehicles.


I've never taken part in one of these surveys, but I wonder what the questions are like and how they represent age and history of a mark? We all know for example that Renault had a similarly bad rep as JLR back in the day, but seem to have improved. Is that perhaps the case with JLR but may not be reflected because of historical experience? And what sort of people are likely to take the test? A car 'enthusiast' who loves cars for being cars, or the sort pf person who has them for space, for getting 'from A to B', who like a good warranty over looks, and frugality over speed, and for whom buying a top-of-the-range JLR would not be on their radar. If that is the case, perhaps (and I'm only playing Devil's advocate here) the only JLR owners likely to review are those who have had so many problems they feeled compelled to make a stand. Put it this way, I would suspect you get far fewer TripAdvisor reviews from regular customers on the very most exclusive restaurants/hotels/first class airline cabins etc than the clientele of medium or low level 'better value' venues.

Dacia was only taken over by Renault in 1999, with their first car sold a year later. But it was 2004 that Dacia started selling in the West. So were a survey to be conducted by owners of cars from the last 15 years only, where would JLR come? As I said, I have no idea about the questions asked. Also, is there likely to be more negativity from a customer who suffers a fault with a premium brand than a standard or indeed cheap brand?

With regard to France, French mags are hugely biased towards French marks. You can have the recent launch of the most revolutionary Tesla, or the fastest Lambo, most Luxurious Bentley or safest ever Volvo and that month's cover will be occupied by the latest Twingo. Look inside and the centre page reviews/tests will be French day-to-day models, anything foreign/prestige being a footnote. If you read their articles, opinions and awards, it's all geared to the French (including Dacia) motor industry. If the rest of the world vote a Korean car as Car of the Year in the same year the French will vote a French one.

Finally, there is a cultural bias in France, which the French happily accept, towards wealth and leading on from this anything that is associated with wealth and ho the wealthy express it. Owning prestige items such as cars, watches etc is seen as very un-French (outside of Paris and the Cote d'Azur), so a brand like JLR will always be looked upon with suspcision (and this does not include their views on anything 'English'), so most (by no means all) French would rather admire a 500.000k Renault 19 thn a brand new RRS, even if the Renault had suffered faults all its life and the RRS was perfect. So, not wishing to French-bash, but their association with their car industry is somewhat partisan. I'm not saying ours (or others) aren't as well, but they have a unique level of rose-tinting on their specs!! Thumbs Up Monsieur Le Grenadier

I've not been everywhere, but it's on my list.....

2011 Puma 110DC - Corris Grey
Post #704971 3rd May 2018 10:24am
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ericvv



Member Since: 02 Jun 2011
Location: Near the Jet d'Eau
Posts: 5816

Switzerland 2009 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 SVX Station Wagon Santorini Black
Well, when a TCS flatbed recovery truck had to come out last summer when my clutch went kaput, the guy told me that the current LR and RR models are their worst clients. I did not have to tell him the address of my dealer, he said their yellow recovery trucks can find the way themselves there. Laughing
Eric You never actually own a Defender. You merely look after it for the next generation.
http://youtu.be/yVRlSsJwD0o
https://youtu.be/vmPr3oTHndg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_GtzTT9Pdl0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABqKPz28e6A
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLZ49Jce_n0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XvAsz_ilQYU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8tMHiX9lSw
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dxwjPuHIV7I
https://vimeo.com/201482507
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSixqL0iyHw
Post #704973 3rd May 2018 10:37am
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Grenadier



Member Since: 23 Jul 2014
Location: The foot of Mont Blanc...
Posts: 5765

France 2011 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Corris Grey
Eric, I'm not surprised, you Swiss are the clockmakers and railway timekeepers of the world. Bow down But woe betide if something isn't perfect Whistle Monsieur Le Grenadier

I've not been everywhere, but it's on my list.....

2011 Puma 110DC - Corris Grey
Post #704979 3rd May 2018 11:06am
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diduan



Member Since: 13 Oct 2016
Location: Central Balkan
Posts: 260

Bulgaria 
Durability is being well engineered from the factory. If so, I may be willing to pay a premium price for it. But I doubt the new defendef will be durable, because it will be too complex. For example, my puma is far from durable, but everything that failed is replaced with a better aftermarket product. In the past three years I had to replace lots of parts, but my truck is more durable now. Defender 110 SW MY2011 2.4tdci decat, no EGR
Jeep Wrangler YJ 1990 4.0. Front 78' Dana 60, Rear CUCV 14 bolt
Post #705054 3rd May 2018 6:04pm
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Morepower



Member Since: 08 Jan 2013
Location: Fife, Scotland
Posts: 630

New Zealand 
Marketing flim-flam...Make it sound cutting edge and dependable... In reality it will be built for the cheapest price, By suppliers who are battered down for the lowest cost...
It will be extremely capable whilst the electronics are working, However as a ruffty-tuffty farm/commercial workhorse. Forget it... JLR aren't interested in making that sort of vehicle... It's for the "Adventure sports bridge" who need connectivity to post istagram/FB/what app pics from the top of a hill like they've just climbed Everest.

Just my 2p

Tim It doesn't matter how bad it is, It can always get worse...

2013 Bowler 110 (Sold)
2016 Bowler 90 Rally Spec (Sold)
Post #705162 4th May 2018 7:01am
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Pilgrimmick



Member Since: 16 Nov 2015
Location: Highlands
Posts: 581

United Kingdom 
Durability should be a given for a working vehicle, 'Premium' just a marketing joke, or do they mean that it will be the first car in the Land Rover range for sixty years to be reliable? 80" 1948
Lightweight V8
Bowler Tomcat
130 Station wagon
90 300tdi
(Santana PS10 pick up)
Range Rover L322 (Ful fat)
Post #705164 4th May 2018 7:19am
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CR



Member Since: 28 Jan 2010
Location: Ireland
Posts: 947

Ireland 2011 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 CSW Santorini Black
= more
Post #705341 4th May 2018 9:25pm
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