 | Home > Puma (Tdci) > `Quality of fuel |
 
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| Swine&Small Member Since: 20 Mar 2017 Location: Norfolk Posts: 1223  
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At the risk becoming boring, in visiting an old subject that I cannot find, I would like some advice.
I am being told that I should not fill my 2.2 puma 90 at the supermarket as the fuel will potentially do some damage to the DPF / EGR/or whatever, . I am being told that I should only use branded fuel. Is this really true, and if so are there any diesel brands that one should use in particular. I have been filling my 2012 VW T5 Camper at the supermarket since new with no apparent misfortunes, but maybe I have been lucky. Neither vehicle is used for short trips and are always at full working temperature when they arrive at their destinations, although, being in our 70's neither is thrashed either. Advice appreciated Swine  1983 Series 3 Pick up in Marine Blue
1967 Morris Traveller 1966 Morris Convertible 2012 VW T5 Camper Quod Abundat Non Obstat. |
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20th Sep 2017 6:02pm |
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| gilarion Member Since: 05 Dec 2013 Location: Wales Posts: 5132  
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I posted this a while ago may answer some of your questions.
Maybe a Complete guide to Supermarket fuel Had a bit of time on my hands today so I thought I would have a go at trying to find out if Supermarket fuel is as good as branded with the facts available or is the fact that some think it is not, just a myth. Sorry for the length of the piece but there are some good details in it. It’s an everyday debate between some people, who will swear that their Land Rover runs better on fuel from XYZ Company and those who say that all fuel is the same and they just buy the cheapest supermarket fuel. The problem is that most people don’t know how the fuel business works. So let’s start with the simple bit. Premium fuels, such as Shell Nitro and BP Ultimate fuels, these are not the same as regular diesel fuels, we all know that. These ‘super fuels’ cost several pence per litre more than regular because they use a different, more sophisticated package of additives for cleaning and lubrication, and have a higher cetane rating Cetane ratings describe the way a fuel burns inside an engine. Broadly speaking, the higher the rating means a fuel will burn more efficiently and effectively inside your engine. This may improve performance and economy slightly – although not all drivers will see a noticeable difference. No supermarkets presently offer their own diesel super fuels at the pumps, in truth this is because the main suppliers will not allow them to buy the fuel with their secret super package of additives at the refinery. So is the regular diesel sold by supermarkets the same quality as that sold by branded fuel companies like Shell, BP, Esso, Texaco and Total? Let’s start with some known facts: All diesel fuels sold in the UK must conform to the relevant British Standards. This means that they should all work in roughly the same way and you can mix them freely in your Land Rovers fuel tank. The standard diesel that’s sold on garage and supermarket forecourts is a mixture of two things base fuel and an additive package. The base fuel is the same for all companies including supermarkets – in fact it usually comes from the same tanks at the local fuel refinery/distribution centre. What varies is the additives package that goes into the fuel. These additives recipes are a closely guarded secret amongst fuel companies and combine of extra ingredients that help keep the engine clean and improve lubrication inside the engine cylinders. Each fuel company has its own additive package. So it is possible (but not common) for some Land Rover owners to feel that their car responds better to the additives used by one fuel manufacturer over those of another. So what About Supermarket Fuels? There are all sorts of stories that go round about supermarket fuels, but the fact is that supermarket fuel tankers are filling up from the same tanks as branded fuel tankers e.g. Shell, BP etc. so the chances are that most of the time, the fuel they sell is the same. However, one common story about supermarket fuel is that some supermarkets don’t have a regular fuel supplier. Instead, they buy odd lots of fuel from wherever it’s cheapest though supermarkets deny this. If this does happen and supermarkets swap their suppliers it can lead to supermarket fuel having a more variable set of additives than branded fuels. However Tesco state that their supplier is always ESSO as do Sainsbury. Morrison says their supplier is Total. Right so what do the Supermarkets say Tesco There are minor differences between the additives in regular diesel fuel sold by the different UK retailers. However, I can assure you that it is not correct that Tesco fuel contains inferior additives. In most cases, it will be the same type and dosage of additive that is contained in fuel sold at branded filling stations. I can also confirm that Tesco diesel fuel does not contain less cold flow improver additive in winter compared to branded diesel. Morrison’s Our diesel is supplied to us depending on our stores locality by one of the refiners and blenders that operate in the UK. We only source from established and reputable refiners and blenders Our diesel fuels are manufactured and guaranteed to British Standard EN590, precisely the same specifications that will be found in fuel from branded sellers such as BP, Shell, Esso and Total. These current specifications permit up to 5% renewable content in diesel such as Fatty Acid Methyl Esters (vegetable oil). European law requires all road fuels to contain such renewable feed stocks. Also in relation to the winter fuel I can advise that Cold flow additives in our Diesel guarantee the properties of Diesel down to minus 15 degrees centigrade. The argument Supermarkets state their specifications; on the other hand they are the Minimum requirement specification. So supermarket diesel meets EN950 specification, as I see it that does not automatically make it the same as branded fuels, which may exceed the specifications set for EN950. So the supermarket argument could be flawed. However every refinery or blender of diesel must meet the British Standard and every production batch is tested and certified before release into the supply chain. Typically, at any refinery or oil depot you will witness the tankers of all branded retailers and supermarkets filling from the same common wholesale tanks. So why is Supermarket fuel cheaper, it is because they sell such vast quantities and their operating costs are spread over higher volumes? Plus they also sell thousands of other products so can afford to offer fuel at a discount and offer as a loss leader. Conclusion All diesel filling stations use a standard ‘base’ fuel which is supplied from the same refineries across the UK no matter what pump it will end up being pumped from into your tank. So going off all the known facts, specifications and statement from various supermarkets, it would appear that supermarket regular diesel is the same as branded fuel, the additive package while slightly different in supermarket fuel is on paper just as good as those added to branded diesel, these additives can affect the MPG and general running of the vehicle that some drivers may experience more extremely in some brands than others including supermarket fuel, but in some cases you may not even notice any difference at all. BUT the fuel is all from the same refineries which all meets the same British Standards, so you can use any diesel to fill up your Land Rover knowing it’s all of the same base’ fuel. Supermarkets have recently come in for bad press with the quality of their fuel; however, this is due to contamination in their holding tanks and not on the quality of their base fuel. So there you have it on paper virtually no difference at all with standard diesel from Branded or Supermarkets. Premium diesel has a better additive recipe, but you pay for it and many swear by it, but you cannot compare super fuels with regular supermarket diesel. Personally I use any fuel. both branded and supermarket, but I always add Millers and my engines run sweet. For those who like Welsh Mountains and narrow boats have a look at my videos and photos at.. http://www.youtube.com/user/conwy1 |
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20th Sep 2017 6:09pm |
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| arran jones Member Since: 21 Nov 2016 Location: south west Posts: 728
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Me personally
Around my area The favorite filling stations for defenders are either BP or shell i dont use anything else Our local bp always seem to have defenders in the forecourt
And i use millers addictive (thanks to custom90steve) |
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20th Sep 2017 6:28pm |
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| Swine&Small Member Since: 20 Mar 2017 Location: Norfolk Posts: 1223
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Thank you very much for that very informative advice
Is Millers additive suitable for all diesel engines and is there a specific one to use, especially on the 2.2 puma of 2015 vintage? 1983 Series 3 Pick up in Marine Blue 1967 Morris Traveller 1966 Morris Convertible 2012 VW T5 Camper Quod Abundat Non Obstat. |
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20th Sep 2017 6:30pm |
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| arran jones Member Since: 21 Nov 2016 Location: south west Posts: 728
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Use for all diesels
Millers Oils Diesel Power Ecomax fuel treatment - 500ml buy from opie oils and in the discount code box when u check out...put in Def2 and u get a good discount |
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20th Sep 2017 6:34pm |
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| custom90 Member Since: 21 Jan 2010 Location: South West, England. Posts: 20916
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Yes - keeps things clean too and can be used permanently.
I have done for over two years now. http://www.opieoils.co.uk/p-60222-millers-...tment.aspx There is an Opie oils discount for members here which is 'DEF2'. Once you use it you won't go back. ____\We|Will|Win/___ ____/🇬🇧🇺🇸\____ _//*⛽ï¸ðŸ›¢ï¸âš™ï¸ðŸ§°*\\_ |
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20th Sep 2017 6:35pm |
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| arran jones Member Since: 21 Nov 2016 Location: south west Posts: 728
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Ive only just brought the stuff so havent had the chance to see what its actually like.yet...ask custom90steve for detailed details
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20th Sep 2017 6:35pm |
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| gilarion Member Since: 05 Dec 2013 Location: Wales Posts: 5132
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Yes Millers is suitable for your engine the cheapest place to buy it as far as I know is from a site sponsor Opie Oils and buy a five litre can of Millers Oils Diesel Power Ecomax fuel treatment which will treat a staggering five thousand litres of fuel.
http://www.opieoils.co.uk/search/go?p=KK&a...e&rk=2 For those who like Welsh Mountains and narrow boats have a look at my videos and photos at.. http://www.youtube.com/user/conwy1 |
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20th Sep 2017 6:38pm |
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| gilarion Member Since: 05 Dec 2013 Location: Wales Posts: 5132
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Forgot to mention this tip with Millers Oils Diesel Power Ecomax fuel treatment. When you are changing your fuel filter fill up the new filter with millers fuel treatment and run the engine it will give your pump and engine a spring clean like no other.
For those who like Welsh Mountains and narrow boats have a look at my videos and photos at..
http://www.youtube.com/user/conwy1 |
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20th Sep 2017 6:42pm |
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| custom90 Member Since: 21 Jan 2010 Location: South West, England. Posts: 20916
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You can indeed buy larger amounts but you would have to clock up plenty of miles per year to use it and keep it fresh.
You also then have to deal with transferring it with dosage. How are you dealing with dosage volume Gilarion? 
I'm assuming transferring to a smaller dosing bottle or some other method? ____\We|Will|Win/___
____/🇬🇧🇺🇸\____ _//*⛽ï¸ðŸ›¢ï¸âš™ï¸ðŸ§°*\\_ |
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20th Sep 2017 6:44pm |
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| Bluest Member Since: 23 Apr 2016 Location: Lancashire Posts: 4289 
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I use Costco diesel with Millers additive. They claim a good additive package and it is always cheapest available in my area. Need to be a Costco member to buy it though. 2007 110 TDCi Station Wagon XS
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20th Sep 2017 6:44pm |
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| Fat Cog Member Since: 19 Mar 2012 Location: Oxfordshire & Devon Posts: 502 
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Gilarion...absolutely brilliant post, you obviously have far too much time on your hands!!!
Ive always shown an interest in the supermarket v branded fuels debate & for no scientific reason whatsoever have never used supermarket derv in any of my vehicles. But funnily enough I had a strange experience only last week after filling up at a Gulf garage, I have a 2016 2.2 Puma with 4k on the clock (its my Sunday best vehicle)...I was quite low on gas so filled nearly a full tank with said Gulf derv & my oh my did my engine pink under acceleration at low speeds (I thought this was a thing of the past with knock sensors), this is something I've never experienced before in newer vehicles & the only conclusion I could reach was the Gulf stuff; I usually opt for Esso, BP or Shell & after filling up again yesterday the 'pink' has disappeared. My local indy 4x4 garage who are a father and son team who have been in the game many years claim that they can tell if supermarket fuel has been used when they remove the head...their advice, stay clear! Since 1973...S1, Air Portable's, Defender's, but only my Wolf TUL HS GS remains |
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20th Sep 2017 7:11pm |
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| LR90XS2011 Member Since: 05 Apr 2011 Location: bickenhill Posts: 3674 
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I allways use BP ultimate unless I'm away from home then try to use something else branded, I have also used 2SO in my BM from new now 9 years old and 90K with no smoke and low MOT emissions DEFENDER 90 TDCI XS,
I hope everyone is well and your land rovers make you happy |
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20th Sep 2017 7:48pm |
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| Rashers Member Since: 21 Jun 2015 Location: Norfolk Posts: 3623 
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After years of exclusive supermarket fill ups, I have, after being pestered by a work mate, to fill up with BP.
I don't fill up the Defender that often, so the money side of things won't make an enormous amount of difference. Now, I was cynical, but I swear it made the engine quieter. I am also aware of the placebo effect (give someone a pill and they feel better - no matter what the pill is). I will keep filling up with BP and see what happens and see if my miles per gallon raises as has been experienced by others. I can't try Shell as there isn't really one near me. It is a reality of supermarkets that they have managed to put most of the indies out of business as has been said previously, Tesco, Sainsbury's Asda and the like don't actually need to make money selling petrol as they have massive stores to subsidise. I suppose my support of supermarket fuel has played a small part in killing off the indie. |
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20th Sep 2017 7:55pm |
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