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Home > Wheels & Tyres > Grabber AT2s - a story

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BigMike Member Since: 13 Jul 2010 Location: Lancashire Posts: 2253

Grabber AT2s - a story Bought 6 of these in June 2010 when I bought the new truck. Drove on them on the road for about 4 weeks, no problem. Did a series of green lanes I know well and at the lunch stop noticed I'd split one. Had no recollection of where I'd done this. In 15 years of lanes, desert, offroad, you name it, I'd never split a tyre like this. Swore a lot and went back to the retailer the next day to let him take a look. The wall had no scuffs and he scratched his head about and said "hmmm, this needs to go back to continental for them to take a look, it'll take them up to 8 weeks to analyse it". In the meantime I bought another, went to morocco, no tyre problems in 4 weeks, they performed well. Came back and a few weeks later went to the isle of man on a green lane trip First night we finished at dusk, thought I'd check the vehicle in the light in the morning before we set off. Duly did, all well. Did a day of pretty easy stuff - no drops, no bangs, all very gentle. No sharp rocks, nothing too narrow. In other words, just basic green lanes. Got to the ferry and had to hang about a bit. Checked the vehicle, couldnt believe it, a split to the front offside. Weirdly the same length, shape and position as the previous one which had gone back. Annoyed I checked the rest of the vehicle. Rear offside was the same. Rear nearside, also split. All three splits identical in nature ie length, shape, position on the sidewall. As before, no major sidewall scuffs. Not happy. Not happy at all. The next day rather than going to the retailer I went to a specialist 4x4 place which I know well. The guys there have a combined experience of about 80 years in offroad and 4x4 experience, and they all drive offroad week in, week out, as well as being a big seller of BFG, Maxxis, Cooper, etc etc (not General I hasten to add). I asked for views on the tyres. All of them shook their heads and said "these tyres are defective, there is no question at all. We have seen this before with AT2s in exactly the same place. The tyres aren't scuffed, they're not kerbed, they're just split, and all in the same place". "but good luck with continental, there is no way they will hold their hands up to this, no way whatsoever, we've tried with them before, you'll just get stonewalled. This is the reason w no longer stock AT2s, we've seen it too many times before" Hmmm. Interesting. At that point I knew I wouldn't have At2's again, no matter what, so I went to the retailer and showed him the tyres. "christ!" he said as he shook his head yet again. He looked closely and said "these tyres are defective, there is no question about it. I havent had the report yet from continental but i will ring them now and explain the situation". I photographed the tyres for record purposes and let him have them. A week later I had a call from the technical manager at continental who asked me about the vehicle they were on, any modifications etc, what had I being doing with the tyres etc etc. He then asked for my permission to chop them up to X-Ray them etc. I explained that I was not his customer and as such could not give that permission, he would have to speak with his customer (ie the retailer). I wrote to the retailer to formalise the situation and explained that whilst I was happy to wait for continental for a few weeks, it could be no more than that, and reminded them that my contract as a consumer was with them, not continental. I had a nice letter back saying we understand but we need to let them look at them. No problem there. Then I had a letter from continental. 2 sentences only which said they had found no problem with the tyres after chopping them up, there was clear scuffing and kerbing damage, and that the splits were as a result of poor driving, and as such, thats what they would report to the retailer. I then rang the retailer and he said "no, we are certain this damage is due to tyre defect, we will speak to them" They went back and forth, no joy. Meantime I wrote again to the retailer and said that my contract was with them, and they had admitted that they felt the tyres were defective, and as such, that was enough for me to request a refund. A week later I got a cheque for all 7 tyres. I actually sold the unused ones and a part used one and had to immediately go back to the buyer, refund his money and explain what had happened. he was happy to give them back and they went back to the retailer just before i got the refund. I asked the retailer to ask continental if I could have back one of the tyres to get it looked at independently. The retailer was all for this, but Conti said they had chopped them all up, even the new ones. So make of this story what you will. It's totally factual, not exaggerated, and a true account of what went on. Top pic shows three of them and the split positions. the final pic shows the state of the tread overall (ie very good, virtually no wear, max 8000 miles on all of them) Click image to enlarge Click image to enlarge

7th Feb 2011 11:49pm

ken Member Since: 18 Aug 2009 Location: Banging Birds with my bitches !! Posts: 4328	BigMike your not the first the phrase baby poo side Walls is often used with AT2s which is a shame because apart from the weak side Walls the tyres are not bad at all. Me I use BFG all the time There will be a stream of AT2 fans along soon but your account is based on your experience
8th Feb 2011 5:35am

willy eckerslike Member Since: 15 Jun 2009 Location: North yorks Posts: 1789	Very interesting and informative post Mike, thanks for taking the time to post it  Original Member Pie n Pea Club. 110 HCPU Tipper
8th Feb 2011 7:45am

leeds Member Since: 28 Dec 2009 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 8578	Mike, it sounds like your retailer has honour his contract with you so To retailer. IF this is a manufacturing problem I wonder how many other people have had a less satisfactory outcome? Brendan
8th Feb 2011 8:33am

BigMike Member Since: 13 Jul 2010 Location: Lancashire Posts: 2253

Cheers Willy. The retailer is ATS who were excellent throughout, not to mention the cheapest when I bought them. A good bunch of guys, and a great manager. If anyone is near me in lancashire and wants a great tyre supplier/fitter, PM me and I'll give you the branch details and his name. They will match what you can find on the web, price wise as long as its a bona fide seller. The 4x4 place suggested that the AT2 was being replaced partly due to these sidewall issues, though they recognised that was speculation on their part. What wasnt speculation was the owner ranting and raving about how they had seen the same issue "so many times before" with AT2s, and that continental just "stonewalled" end users and retailers who went back to them with these problems, and that this was the reason they no longer sell generals or contis. Don't get me wrong, if I had done something daft and split a tyre I wouldn't have any problem in buying a new one. Two even. If it was my cock up I'd be mad with myself but just get on with it. What annoyed me the most, even more than the failure of the sidewalls was the attitude of continental who acted like this had never happened before, when clearly it has, and many times at that. The letter I received from them was just plain rude, and whilst my first reaction was to write a stinking letter back, but in the end I'd had a refund so it just didn't seem worth it.

8th Feb 2011 2:04pm

lrdxb110 Member Since: 09 Jul 2009 Location: Dubai Posts: 224	Big Mike thanks a bunch for important info just cancelled my order for the grabbers at2 Going to sort myself some bfg all terrains. Your lucky to have a retailer who provides honest customer service.  '08 LR Defender 110 '08 Mini Cooper S - Sidewalk '86 MB 500 SL '79 MB 450SEL 6.9
8th Feb 2011 4:58pm

bm52 Member Since: 04 Apr 2010 Location: Kent Posts: 2189	Mike - did i miss it, what will you replace the AT2s with? BM52
8th Feb 2011 7:41pm

BigMike Member Since: 13 Jul 2010 Location: Lancashire Posts: 2253	Maxxis MT761 - fantastic Had maxxis mudders on my old truck and they were always great. the 761 is the latest version.
8th Feb 2011 7:42pm

SJM Member Since: 09 Dec 2007 Location: Kent Posts: 237	Very interesting post. BFG's for me when money permits a swap. Simon '11 Defender 110XS Utility SW '07 Discovery 3 HSE '58 Porsche 356A (not good off road) '59 Lambretta (not good on or off road!)
8th Feb 2011 10:18pm

Peter Td4 Member Since: 23 Oct 2010 Location: Antwerp, Belgium Posts: 227

Hi, As I've just ordered a set of AT2's for my Td5 I'm really a bit worried now. How does this split actually look like ? I'm afraid that I've difficulty to recognise this on the photo's Is the outside really damaged or is this more in the internal construction of the tyre ? (so that you rather feel this when going over the sides with your hand) Thanks for the advice. Peter, Defender 110 StaWa - Td5 Defender 110 HCPU - Puma Defender 90 Soft Top - Td5

9th Feb 2011 9:12am

AJS4X4 Member Since: 28 May 2008 Location: Surrey Posts: 793

Sorry to hear about your problem. I have sold thousands of General AT2's over the years and have never seen this problem, I must say looking at the photo of the damage it does look like sidewall damage and not a tyre fault, but it's not fair to comment on a photo, shame they chopped them up as I for one would have loved to inspect the casings and sidewalls. General have got a fantastic name and I am supprised at your story of events and I hope you get on well with your new boots. I will add that I have seen many complaint tyres over the 35 years I have been in the tyre trade and BFGoodrich have had their fair share of problems, especially with the old AT tyre's. I remember when a few years ago we had to change almost 100 BFGoodrich AT KO 235/70x16 tyres due to casing defects, they had a problem with a three month batch, this only came to light when their was an accident but at least they sorted the problem, we had some customers getting a free set after doing 30,000 + miles. All tyre manufacturers have the odd problem which should be picked up by quality control. I am a big General dealer and have a lot faith in the product, all my 4x4's and cars run on them. Andy.

9th Feb 2011 9:49am

BigMike Member Since: 13 Jul 2010 Location: Lancashire Posts: 2253

Peter Td4 wrote: Hi, As I've just ordered a set of AT2's for my Td5 I'm really a bit worried now. How does this split actually look like ? I'm afraid that I've difficulty to recognise this on the photo's Is the outside really damaged or is this more in the internal construction of the tyre ? (so that you rather feel this when going over the sides with your hand) Thanks for the advice. Peter, if you look at the second pic down, the split is on the outside of the tyre wall. None of them are tears, they all looked exactly like that - same place, same length, same shape. the previous one which split was also the same.

9th Feb 2011 9:52am

BigMike Member Since: 13 Jul 2010 Location: Lancashire Posts: 2253

Andy, fair enough, that's your experience and in terms of AT2s, its far more comprehensive than my experience with them. There were no tears or chunks out of the walls as I would expect if the vehicle had been bouncing off the scenery, just very neat splits, all of the same length and poition. I did wonder if the stiff suspension could have been the cause / a contributing factor, but ultimately these tyres are designed for off road driving and should be robust enough to easily handle the terrain we were on and stuff suspension. The drove extremely well, and were fantastic in the desert the last time I went, but morocco is notorious for sidewall damage and since we're going twice this year there was no way I could take the chance of splitting 3 tyres or more out there when I'm don't drive in a reckless manner. I compared side walls with other makes of tyre and the thickness of the AT2 wall is most definitely thinner than other brands of tyre (ok this is not "real" evidence of anything, just using eye and pushing the walls with fingers) I've had all kinds of tyres of the years and have never experienced anything like this before, and hopefully never will again.

9th Feb 2011 10:02am

ken Member Since: 18 Aug 2009 Location: Banging Birds with my bitches !! Posts: 4328	One thing I forgot about the AT2 is its "Winter Rated" ie the mountain snowflake @ Andy (AJS) does / will the new AT have the same winter rating
9th Feb 2011 10:35am

BigMike Member Since: 13 Jul 2010 Location: Lancashire Posts: 2253	I can't get my head round the new AT pattern at all.
9th Feb 2011 10:40am

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