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Snowy90

Member Since: 23 Feb 2015
Location: Surrey
Posts: 482

2008 Defender 90 Puma 2.4 XS CSW Fuji White

Thoughts on Stereo

Hi Guy's I just cannot put up with the stereo any longer, love the car hate the speakers. Back ground Defender 90/Puma 2008 with forward facing rear seats

So I have a Nakamichi CD500 head unit, awesome unit when it was in my Merc and it even tries to improve the standard speakers over the LR head unit I removed. But it skips and jumps and being an older unit it doesn't have ipod connections and Bluetooth. But it would sit very well with the other kit I would like to fit in??? So what to do!

I have ordered the tried and tested Focal 100 KRS 4 inch for the front which I understand should be a straight fit, so all good there.

I have a Genesis Profile 4 ultra amp which I want to mount underneath the cubby box which would have to be raised slightly but the amp is only 35mm high so should work ok, plus I feel the cubby is too low for me anyway.

Then My big dilemma is to the rear speakers.

Options

1) Thinking about another tried and tested Focal PC100 as a direct replacement. Would sound Good but I do worry about the location as we always stuff coats and things on that handy ledge behind the rear seats. Plus sure I would need the normal sub probably an underseat jobby alpine kenwood etc...
2) Getting some 130mm or if they will fit 165mm focals to fit with some adjustment in the standard positions. Im considering just fitting the woofers only to pick up the bass. However I could fit the separate tweeter as well any thoughts on locating the tweeter high in the back window area, might cause sound issues. Still has the issue of covering them up but if they are only the woofers would be too much of an issue.
3) I reckon I could fit 165mm or maybe two 8 inch subs in the recess into the wheel arch just in front of the two rear seats, with MDF mounts this would get around the issue of packing the car up and covering but does move away from the stock appearance?

Sorry there is a lot to read and take in here but essentially I know sound staging is predominantly front focussed so really I want the rear speakers to be producing the low notes but as we have 4 seats I want the rear passengers to still be able to hear the music and voices.

Welcome any thoughts and sure many have been through these options before. So perhaps I can learn from others pitfalls!!

12th May 2015 4:46pm

consumerize

Member Since: 27 May 2014
Location: Berkshire
Posts: 121

I helped a friend install a Sub woofer into his defender 90 2007 with rear seats last weekend. He had replaced the stock speakers with Focal's with the separate tweeters up on the dash, and the rear speakers.

The head unit had already been replaced with a pretty decent DAB radio / IPOD / USB player

Without the Sub, the vocals give a nice crisp sound, but there was no base to speak of. Sounded a bit tinny.

He installed a Kenwood KSC-SW11 powered sub. just wide enough to snugly screw onto the back of the cubby box. it has a built in amp, came with all the cables (minus RCA cables). Dead easy to fit. For a compact unit gave an excellent sound. all wires hidden away. Really neat option. Was about £110 i believe.

12th May 2015 5:20pm

Snowy90

Member Since: 23 Feb 2015
Location: Surrey
Posts: 482

Thanks for the reply, out of interest what focals size did he fit in the back? Did they have separate tweeters are all in one unit? I think 5 inch or 130mm is about as big as you can get in the rear?

The sub I suppose is the default position seen a lot of them fitted to the back of the Cubby box I guess that's why LR fit the Alpine unit there.

13th May 2015 9:59am

DaveGL

Member Since: 19 Dec 2014
Location: Surrey
Posts: 57

2007 Defender 90 Puma 2.4 XS CSW Cairns Blue

Hi Snowy

I was the friend in question

I fitted the ISN100s and the PC100s - have to say, not that impressed with them, I think at the end of the day the 4" speakers are just too small.

As Glyn said, they sound very crisp, but don't have the volume or any bass. The addition of the Kenwood sub improved the setup greatly, but I would suggest you add some larger speakers if you can.

The thread where this is all discussed in more detail is here:

http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic36854.html

Cheers

13th May 2015 10:14am

Snowy90

Member Since: 23 Feb 2015
Location: Surrey
Posts: 482

That's really helpful thanks,

I will be fitting the Focal 100 KRS up front but I think as everyone said its all about trying to get some bass in there.

Not sure how to describe it but I wonder if anyone has tried to fit speakers in the area shown on the photo's

They are about 8/9 inches clear and 7 inches deep? so doubt if a small 8 inch sub would fit?

13th May 2015 10:34am

H3nry

Member Since: 08 Jan 2014
Location: Heathrow
Posts: 134

Hi Snowy,
Why not modify the cubby box, and put the 8" subwoofer at the back of it?

13th May 2015 1:17pm

Snowy90

Member Since: 23 Feb 2015
Location: Surrey
Posts: 482

Hi

I did think about that, but we have alsorts of stuff in there and its quite useful, so would really want to reduce its internal volume but also I recon it would rattle and vibrate a lot. The lid vibrates as it is.

Anyone get unintentional vibrations from the "underseat" type subs bolted to the back of the cubby?

13th May 2015 1:25pm

scotiach

Member Since: 19 Nov 2014
Location: 5603
Posts: 36

2015 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 SW Scotia Grey

The little sub on the back of the cubby does vibrate the cupholders in mine if you don't limit the frequency to <80hz, which is plenty for the sub anyway. Above that it can get a bit boomy and you're playing a good chunk of your music mono.

6.5"s do fit in the stock locations right at the back with some 'trimming' of the plastic covers - depth is not too bad back there. If you have 3rd row passengers alot (like my kids) then a coax of that size would be considerate for them. I fitted a pair of Pioneer TSE1702is. But singing voices are never going to get into the tweeter range >3khz anyway, and the tweeter frequencies are very directional, so you'll sacrifice some front staging. I'm about to cut the higher tweeter frequencies from these and see what it's like for them. No need to spend loads of money back there I would say.

Ideally you should get a modern head unit with time alignment, 3 pairs of pre-amp outs and your 4 channel genesis are OK if your cubby sub is active. 4" speakers in the stock locations actually sound OK, as most of the audible sound from them seems to come from the rear of the speakers up through the dash out through the window vent, definitely go for a component set and use the stock tweeter location, to have the stage 'raised' even more. The problem you'll have is a frequency 'hole' of a few dbs above where your sub plays well and below where your mids play well. I've been testing mine and the hole is at 100hz exactly. The cubby sub provides more than enough bass balance (tested on a RTA) for 100w to each mid/component channel. You could build a box for a pair of 8s but you almost certainly don't need to for decent sound quality.

You can fit 5.25s (130mm) up front with some trimming work. Remember either way you'll need to find space for the crossovers if you fit a component set. Not easy up there.

Just my 2p as I have gone through this/am going through this still.

13th May 2015 3:12pm

Snowy90

Member Since: 23 Feb 2015
Location: Surrey
Posts: 482

Hi Scotiach

That's more than helpful, I think 165mm at the rear would be very useful and yes I will have passengers at the rear so probably a good idea. I will probably go for a component set so I can experiment with and without the tweeter.

My knowledge of amps installs dates back to my "boy racer" days in my Mk 3 escort but why 3 preamp outs? My CD500 only has 2

My plan was to run the genesis to run front and rear speakers? would this need more than one pre-amp input? I not the genesis has two lots of inputs?

Then possible either a another amp/sub set up? or standard under seat sub? another preamp output

Or am I missing something

13th May 2015 4:35pm

scotiach

Member Since: 19 Nov 2014
Location: 5603
Posts: 36

You'll need to use both preout channels to both input channels on the genesis to be able to use the fader and to control hpf for front and rear independently from the hu. the genesis output channel pairs power front and rear. this means you are missing a controllable output channel from the hu for the active sub (no amp channel needed).
A good hu nowadays has 3 preout pairs (or 4) and time alignment, and at leat 16 channel eq on both sides. Costs ca 200 quid. eg Pioneer deh 80 prs.
cubby sub from alpine or pioneer 200 quid.
your genesis amp is top stuff so use that.
canles, connectors, stock rear box sealing, etc another 100.
front components- your choice.... upwards of 100 or so?
next level is soundproofing the whole car or the floor at least.
then spend all your time fiddling with the settings, discovering the joys of pink noise and resisting 'upgrades'

13th May 2015 6:54pm

Snowy90

Member Since: 23 Feb 2015
Location: Surrey
Posts: 482

That's an Awsome response thanyou, I completely understand.

Thanks for that.

Re sound proofing the rear is carpeted and has some proofing but when I pull out the front seats and cubby for cables etc the plan is to apply some more proofing and carpet as it currently has the rubber foam backed Land rover stuff.

Any thoughts on whether its worth upgrading the speaker cable? With Home stereo I have had people always saying upgrade to a decent speaker cables and interconnects, does the same apply to car systems.

Thanks

Chris

14th May 2015 9:49am

scotiach

Member Since: 19 Nov 2014
Location: 5603
Posts: 36

In a car the environment is so poor for sq that the cable is the least of your problems. For safety, make sure that the cable cross section area is sufficient to handle the watts over the given distance. Not an issue for you for the setup you describe, but if you throw a thousand watts at a sub at the back then thicker wire would be less prone to heat (resistance) - there are online calculators for that. Easiest way to wire the amp up to the front and rear component crossovers is to run good speaker wire from the amp to back behind the hu (same path opposite direction to the rca cables) and splice each wire (4) into the corresponding existing loom wires for each corner's speaker. Colours are in the wiring diagram. Then you don't have to pull the dash and the head liner. Next time I'll do it 'right' and pull it all out and wire it all but only when the equipment justifies the hassle.

14th May 2015 7:49pm

Snowy90

Member Since: 23 Feb 2015
Location: Surrey
Posts: 482

That sounds like a top tip.

ALso I did pully out the Nak HU to see what I had and it turns out I have 2 direct RCA outputs front and rear plus a smaller connection with 2 RC leads for SW subwoofer

So it looks like I can keep the Nak if I can live with the skipping and no blue tooth.

Clearly it wont have time delay but from what I have read and heard its a sweet HU so may persist with that for now.

15th May 2015 3:28pm

scotiach

Member Since: 19 Nov 2014
Location: 5603
Posts: 36

Cool. Won't cost anything to try it, and the hu is easily replaced further down the line. The old Naks were/are very decent.

18th May 2015 9:12am

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