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ericvv



Member Since: 02 Jun 2011
Location: Near the Jet d'Eau
Posts: 5816

Switzerland 2009 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 SVX Station Wagon Santorini Black
munch90 wrote:
The ECT gauge is driven by high speed CAN bus messages from the ECM. For normal operating temperatures the gauge
needle pointer is positioned centrally in the gauge display. The needle pointer position translates to the following
approximate temperatures.
Engine Coolant Temperature °C (°F) Needle Pointer Position
Ignition off Park position
40 (104) Cold (blue segment)
75 - 115 (167 - 239) Normal (central)
120 (248) Start of hot (red segment)
125 (257) End of hot

from manual


Munch, if that is indeed how it really functions, there we have the problem. It is not normal that a water temp gauge stays firmly in the middle until the water temp reaches 115°C....
Now, if the manual says that, it forgets to mention that indeed between cold and what must be 75°C, the needle moves nicely and gradually up and down with increasing or decreasing water temp....
So the question remains, why couldn't it do the same above 75°C and keep gradually moving up with the water temp from middle til the red line....
That would give the right and timely warning signal.
Eric You never actually own a Defender. You merely look after it for the next generation.
http://youtu.be/yVRlSsJwD0o
https://youtu.be/vmPr3oTHndg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_GtzTT9Pdl0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABqKPz28e6A
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLZ49Jce_n0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XvAsz_ilQYU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8tMHiX9lSw
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dxwjPuHIV7I
https://vimeo.com/201482507
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSixqL0iyHw
Post #327713 2nd May 2014 5:15am
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Naks



Member Since: 27 Jan 2009
Location: Stellenbosch, ZA
Posts: 2579

South Africa 2010 Defender 90 Puma 2.4 SW Alpine White
One of the reasons why the needle stays in the middle on most vehicles is to not alarm people unnecessarily? Confused --
2010 Defender Puma 90 + BAS remap + Alive IC + Slickshift + Ashcroft ATB rear
2015 Range Rover Sport V8 Supercharged



Defender Puma Workshop Manual: https://bit.ly/2zZ1en9
Discovery 4 Workshop Manual: https://bit.ly/2zXrtKO
Range Rover/Sport L320/L322/L494 Workshop Manual: https://bit.ly/2zc58JQ
Post #327753 2nd May 2014 8:32am
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Cheshire110



Member Since: 26 Jul 2013
Location: Cheshire/London
Posts: 2718

United Kingdom 
115? Normal?!

Speaking of which, 115 appears to be the temp that mine goes into limp mode so that all seems right above. Strange thiugh.

You'd think that there should be a 'high' zone from say 95-115 to warn you it's running hot then... Cheers, David
Land Rovers of all shapes S3 onwards… Daily is a 110 V8.
Post #327755 2nd May 2014 8:45am
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ericvv



Member Since: 02 Jun 2011
Location: Near the Jet d'Eau
Posts: 5816

Switzerland 2009 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 SVX Station Wagon Santorini Black
Naks wrote:
One of the reasons why the needle stays in the middle on most vehicles is to not alarm people unnecessarily? Confused


I don't think it does that on most vehicles. On most vehicles this gauge will move more or less linear with rising and lowering water temp to give you reality picture. As the Puma gauge perfectly does between cold and "normal" level by the way, so technically it must be possible for it to do that all the way to red too.

Frankly, the way the Puma water temp gauge is set up from "normal" to "dangerously high" level is straightforward Ostrich Policy..... No more, no less.
Eric You never actually own a Defender. You merely look after it for the next generation.
http://youtu.be/yVRlSsJwD0o
https://youtu.be/vmPr3oTHndg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_GtzTT9Pdl0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABqKPz28e6A
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLZ49Jce_n0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XvAsz_ilQYU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8tMHiX9lSw
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dxwjPuHIV7I
https://vimeo.com/201482507
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSixqL0iyHw
Post #327767 2nd May 2014 9:27am
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Naks



Member Since: 27 Jan 2009
Location: Stellenbosch, ZA
Posts: 2579

South Africa 2010 Defender 90 Puma 2.4 SW Alpine White
Quote:
On most vehicles this gauge will move more or less linear with rising and lowering water temp to give you reality picture


Nope, not so.

In every single vehicle I have driven, the temp gauge moves slowly to the normal position and then stays there, even though we all know the coolant temp is constantly changing.

On my Sentra, Defender Td5, Disco Td5, old Audi A3, brand new Audi A3, my brother's Corsa, brand new Touareg, etc.

This is why I have the EMS - I can see what is happening to the coolant temp and can adjust my driving depending on the ambient temperature, slope of the road, towing/not, etc. --
2010 Defender Puma 90 + BAS remap + Alive IC + Slickshift + Ashcroft ATB rear
2015 Range Rover Sport V8 Supercharged



Defender Puma Workshop Manual: https://bit.ly/2zZ1en9
Discovery 4 Workshop Manual: https://bit.ly/2zXrtKO
Range Rover/Sport L320/L322/L494 Workshop Manual: https://bit.ly/2zc58JQ
Post #327768 2nd May 2014 9:35am
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ericvv



Member Since: 02 Jun 2011
Location: Near the Jet d'Eau
Posts: 5816

Switzerland 2009 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 SVX Station Wagon Santorini Black
^^ and stays there..........
OK, I guess you mean above normal in this case.
In any case my Puma gauge when it reaches normal, but when in colder weather conditions I get into stationary trafic, the gauge will continue to gradually move back down in direction of the cold level in line with eventually lowering water temperatures.
So between cold and normal, the gauge shows continuously the real water temp, but not above.
My viewpoint remains unchanged, as the Puma gauge is set up to fly up straight from normal to the red zone at a already dangerously high temp of 115°C or so, there is little time given to react and to avoid engine damage. So it would be worth something to me if this could be reprogrammed in order to get away from this ostrich policy and just show the real thing. Thumbs Up
Eric You never actually own a Defender. You merely look after it for the next generation.
http://youtu.be/yVRlSsJwD0o
https://youtu.be/vmPr3oTHndg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_GtzTT9Pdl0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABqKPz28e6A
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLZ49Jce_n0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XvAsz_ilQYU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8tMHiX9lSw
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dxwjPuHIV7I
https://vimeo.com/201482507
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSixqL0iyHw
Post #327780 2nd May 2014 9:53am
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munch90



Member Since: 26 Oct 2013
Location: guildford
Posts: 3558

England 
the gauge is too small and needle movement area too small to give a accurate reading anyway , to give a temp change of 1 or 2 degrees on the gauge you would have to have a magnifying glass to see needle has moved

any proper temp gauge will have a scale much longer like right round the face of the gauge ,


some cars now don't even have a gauge at all just a light
Post #327785 2nd May 2014 10:14am
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K9F



Member Since: 12 Nov 2009
Location: Bournemouth
Posts: 9610

United Kingdom 2008 Defender 90 Puma 2.4 XS CSW Stornoway Grey
Why don't we have a whip-round and buy Eric a suitable bluetooth gizmo or a Scangauge perhaps? I'm in!
If it ain't broke don't mess with it!

Thumbs Up If you go through life with your head in the sand....all people will see is an ar5e!!

Treat every day as if it is your last....one day you will be right!!
Post #327787 2nd May 2014 10:17am
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Happyoldgit



Member Since: 14 Sep 2007
Location: Norfolk
Posts: 3471

United Kingdom 2015 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 USW Corris Grey
Ah but it might be broke and just not showing it Laughing Does this mean Caterhamitis could be contagious? Shocked Steve.
Owned numerous Land Rover vehicles of all shapes and sizes over the decades.
Current Defender: A non tarts hand-bagged Puma 110 XS USW.

[Insert something impressive here such as extensive list of previous Land Rovers or examples of your prestigeous and expensive items, trinkets, houses, bikes, vehicles etc]

http://forums.lr4x4.com

I used to be Miserable ...but now I'm ecstatic.
Post #327788 2nd May 2014 10:28am
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ericvv



Member Since: 02 Jun 2011
Location: Near the Jet d'Eau
Posts: 5816

Switzerland 2009 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 SVX Station Wagon Santorini Black
K9F wrote:
Why don't we have a whip-round and buy Eric a suitable bluetooth gizmo or a Scangauge perhaps? I'm in!
If it ain't broke don't mess with it!

Thumbs Up


Luckily no need for that. I would rather have a functioning water coolant temp gauge, which would give a decent indication when water temp rises above normal, and I surely am not interested if the temp is exactly at 83°, at 84°, and so on, so a well functioning standard temp gauge could do just that. And as said, I would happily have paid for such a software change. But seems problematic I guess.

I surely am not interested in the scangauge gizmos, and if it appears that there is no cure for this with the standard water temp gauge, I already have in mind a different solution which will give the correct water temp and which will fit my dash like a glove. Whistle
Eric You never actually own a Defender. You merely look after it for the next generation.
http://youtu.be/yVRlSsJwD0o
https://youtu.be/vmPr3oTHndg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_GtzTT9Pdl0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABqKPz28e6A
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLZ49Jce_n0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XvAsz_ilQYU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8tMHiX9lSw
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dxwjPuHIV7I
https://vimeo.com/201482507
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSixqL0iyHw
Post #327792 2nd May 2014 10:56am
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K9F



Member Since: 12 Nov 2009
Location: Bournemouth
Posts: 9610

United Kingdom 2008 Defender 90 Puma 2.4 XS CSW Stornoway Grey
Crack on with it and then share the information for anyone that may be interested! Or share now to see if there are any flaws!

Thumbs Up If you go through life with your head in the sand....all people will see is an ar5e!!

Treat every day as if it is your last....one day you will be right!!
Post #327794 2nd May 2014 11:00am
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ericvv



Member Since: 02 Jun 2011
Location: Near the Jet d'Eau
Posts: 5816

Switzerland 2009 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 SVX Station Wagon Santorini Black
I am thinking of putting this type of VDO gauge into the side of the center dash with the right sensor at the engine for the water temp. Now don't ask me about technicalities for this, I guess I will ask my dealer or another specialist to do it.
In any case this type of classic VDO gauges suits a Defender quite well I think.
Anybody have done this already, or any comments, suggestions, is there enough space behind the center dash side for this gauge, maybe someone kill the idea as unworkable.....? Comments and advise welcome Thumbs Up
Eric


http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VDO-Water-Temper...3f1f0f5caa You never actually own a Defender. You merely look after it for the next generation.
http://youtu.be/yVRlSsJwD0o
https://youtu.be/vmPr3oTHndg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_GtzTT9Pdl0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABqKPz28e6A
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLZ49Jce_n0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XvAsz_ilQYU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8tMHiX9lSw
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dxwjPuHIV7I
https://vimeo.com/201482507
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSixqL0iyHw
Post #327802 2nd May 2014 11:35am
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munch90



Member Since: 26 Oct 2013
Location: guildford
Posts: 3558

England 
40-120 so much the same as standard one
Post #327806 2nd May 2014 11:45am
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ericvv



Member Since: 02 Jun 2011
Location: Near the Jet d'Eau
Posts: 5816

Switzerland 2009 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 SVX Station Wagon Santorini Black
Correct, but it shows the real water temp, and I am not going to wait until it is showing 120°C before taking some action. Laughing
Think this type of VDO gauges which is a sober design which exists already for many decades fits the Defender design very well. Thumbs Up
Nobody on here has done that sofar?
Eric You never actually own a Defender. You merely look after it for the next generation.
http://youtu.be/yVRlSsJwD0o
https://youtu.be/vmPr3oTHndg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_GtzTT9Pdl0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABqKPz28e6A
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLZ49Jce_n0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XvAsz_ilQYU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8tMHiX9lSw
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dxwjPuHIV7I
https://vimeo.com/201482507
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSixqL0iyHw
Post #327826 2nd May 2014 12:24pm
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ericvv



Member Since: 02 Jun 2011
Location: Near the Jet d'Eau
Posts: 5816

Switzerland 2009 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 SVX Station Wagon Santorini Black
My main question to you technical wizzards now is, while leaving the sensor/sender of the standard Puma water temp gauge in place, so keep letting the standard gauge do its standard thing Cool , is there another obvious place on the Puma engine where I could put another VDO water temp sensor/sender for the VDO gauge?
Eric You never actually own a Defender. You merely look after it for the next generation.
http://youtu.be/yVRlSsJwD0o
https://youtu.be/vmPr3oTHndg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_GtzTT9Pdl0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABqKPz28e6A
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLZ49Jce_n0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XvAsz_ilQYU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8tMHiX9lSw
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dxwjPuHIV7I
https://vimeo.com/201482507
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSixqL0iyHw
Post #327829 2nd May 2014 12:42pm
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