 | Home > Technical > ATB (torsen) front and rear install |
 
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| LR90XS2011 Member Since: 05 Apr 2011 Location: bickenhill Posts: 3613   
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well used it a bit more now and no major issues noted, slightly less back lash in transmission, certainly different when turning not better not worse just slightly different.
on wet grass it is significantly better pulling away under normal driving there is no slip, not traction light it just pulls away, whereas before wheels would spin and traction light would flash up. have a trip coming up to the Elan Valley so will see how they perform on the lanes around the reservoir. DEFENDER 90 TDCI XS, I hope everyone is well and your land rovers make you happy |
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28th Apr 2018 5:50pm |
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| Naks Member Since: 27 Jan 2009 Location: Stellenbosch, ZA Posts: 2588  
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the saga continues:
In May I took the landy to the local Ashcroft distributor to try and fix the vibration issue, and he took apart everything and did the setup again: with new bearings, propshaft balanced, etc. This reduced the vibrations somewhat and the diff was not whining as much. However, since then the vibrations have been worsening, so I took the landy to the local prop expert, and, at the recommendation of my indie, he installed a double-knuckle on it. This has reduced the low-speed vibrations by quite a big margin, but now they are occurring at slightly higher speeds, although they are not as bad.  Click image to enlarge When they removed the front prop, the UJs were all fine, same for the rear prop - no obvious signs of wear & tear nor abuse/degradation. What do you guys suggest? Time to drop the transfer case and see what's going on inside it? -- 2010 Defender Puma 90 + BAS remap + Alive IC + Slickshift + Ashcroft ATB rear 2015 Range Rover Sport V8 Supercharged
Defender Puma Workshop Manual: https://bit.ly/2zZ1en9 Discovery 4 Workshop Manual: https://bit.ly/2zXrtKO Range Rover/Sport L320/L322/L494 Workshop Manual: https://bit.ly/2zc58JQ |
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4th Sep 2018 2:45pm |
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| Naks Member Since: 27 Jan 2009 Location: Stellenbosch, ZA Posts: 2588
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Yep, back in May, I drove without the rear prop and the vibrations were gone.
However, the prop was analysed and found to be perfectly balanced. Two different people have looked at the rear diff and neither found anything amiss with the setup. Whether the ATB is in there or not, the vibrations are still there, so it's not that either. -- 2010 Defender Puma 90 + BAS remap + Alive IC + Slickshift + Ashcroft ATB rear 2015 Range Rover Sport V8 Supercharged
Defender Puma Workshop Manual: https://bit.ly/2zZ1en9 Discovery 4 Workshop Manual: https://bit.ly/2zXrtKO Range Rover/Sport L320/L322/L494 Workshop Manual: https://bit.ly/2zc58JQ |
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4th Sep 2018 2:58pm |
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| MK Member Since: 28 Aug 2008 Location: Santiago Posts: 2261  
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What about driving without halfshafts?
Any suspension mod? Puma 110" SW ............................................................. Earth first. Other planets later |
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4th Sep 2018 3:06pm |
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| Naks Member Since: 27 Jan 2009 Location: Stellenbosch, ZA Posts: 2588
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I haven't tried driving without halfshafts, will suggest that to my indie.
The vehicle had a 2" lift back in 2011, never had any vibrations/issues with it until I put in the ATB... -- 2010 Defender Puma 90 + BAS remap + Alive IC + Slickshift + Ashcroft ATB rear 2015 Range Rover Sport V8 Supercharged
Defender Puma Workshop Manual: https://bit.ly/2zZ1en9 Discovery 4 Workshop Manual: https://bit.ly/2zXrtKO Range Rover/Sport L320/L322/L494 Workshop Manual: https://bit.ly/2zc58JQ |
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4th Sep 2018 3:08pm |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 16876 
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Take all four out and you will find it wonderfully smooth!
You will always get a certain amount of vibration from a TDCi from the front driveline due to the inclination of the engine and gearbox assembly, which was raised at the front on the TDCi to allow the sump to clear (or on the early models, almost to clear) the front axle and propshaft. The result of this is that the two flanges of the front propshaft are not aligned on parallel vertical planes, and hence it is impossible with a simple Hooke joint at each end of the shaft to get the shaft to run smoothly. LR should, in this situation, have fitted a DC joint at the transfer box end. Fitting one will always make a marked improvement to smoothness, as you have found. I can only assume that JLR figured that no-one would notice one extra vibration in what is already a noisy and rattly vehicle. |
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4th Sep 2018 4:03pm |
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| Naks Member Since: 27 Jan 2009 Location: Stellenbosch, ZA Posts: 2588
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thing is, before I put in the Ashcroft, my Puma was running superbly: no vibrations, no weird rattles, nothing.
It's been almost a year now since the ATB went in, and since then nothing but troubles  --
2010 Defender Puma 90 + BAS remap + Alive IC + Slickshift + Ashcroft ATB rear 2015 Range Rover Sport V8 Supercharged
Defender Puma Workshop Manual: https://bit.ly/2zZ1en9 Discovery 4 Workshop Manual: https://bit.ly/2zXrtKO Range Rover/Sport L320/L322/L494 Workshop Manual: https://bit.ly/2zc58JQ |
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4th Sep 2018 4:09pm |
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| Caterham Member Since: 06 Nov 2008 Location: Birmingham Posts: 6264  
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NAKS is the problem there all the time?
I presume it's road speed related and not engine speed. Under the right conditions ie straight line. do you get exactly the same scenario with the diff locked? |
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4th Sep 2018 4:14pm |
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| Naks Member Since: 27 Jan 2009 Location: Stellenbosch, ZA Posts: 2588
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yes, all the time.
pre-DC, the worst was at around 40kmh, then 60kmh... and some residual at around 70-ish. post-DC, worst is now at around 60kmh and then some residual at around 80-100 kmh. It's in a straight line, in corners, everywhere. I haven't tried with the diff locked, it's all tar around here. -- 2010 Defender Puma 90 + BAS remap + Alive IC + Slickshift + Ashcroft ATB rear 2015 Range Rover Sport V8 Supercharged
Defender Puma Workshop Manual: https://bit.ly/2zZ1en9 Discovery 4 Workshop Manual: https://bit.ly/2zXrtKO Range Rover/Sport L320/L322/L494 Workshop Manual: https://bit.ly/2zc58JQ |
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4th Sep 2018 4:22pm |
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| MK Member Since: 28 Aug 2008 Location: Santiago Posts: 2261
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AFAIK when fitting a DC prop the single joint end should have no-to little angle with the propshaft.
If the lift is close or more to 2 inches I reckon you fixed the castor bushes and so on. I have a 110 with mild 35mm lift and the rear propshaft is longer than the 90´s. Maybe it is your rear propshaft the one is giving you troubles. Make sure the rear also fitted with offset (30 deg?) between the joints. Puma 110" SW ............................................................. Earth first. Other planets later |
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4th Sep 2018 5:50pm |
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| Naks Member Since: 27 Jan 2009 Location: Stellenbosch, ZA Posts: 2588
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This is a list of what was done at the annual service back in January, when these vibrations started:
Replaced L/Front Tierod End Replaced R/Rear Tierod End Replace engine mountings Remove swivel pin & strip Replace stub axle oil seal & bearing Replace swivel pin oil seal & refit Could any of these have affected something that resulted in those vibrations? -- 2010 Defender Puma 90 + BAS remap + Alive IC + Slickshift + Ashcroft ATB rear 2015 Range Rover Sport V8 Supercharged
Defender Puma Workshop Manual: https://bit.ly/2zZ1en9 Discovery 4 Workshop Manual: https://bit.ly/2zXrtKO Range Rover/Sport L320/L322/L494 Workshop Manual: https://bit.ly/2zc58JQ |
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5th Sep 2018 8:13am |
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| MK Member Since: 28 Aug 2008 Location: Santiago Posts: 2261
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Probably not. When fitting back the cv joints they have to sit properly against the outer needle bearing.
Make sure the rear prop joints are off phase and half shafts are straight. Finally go back to your std suspension and see from there. If you still blame the atb, remove and inspect its guts. Easy to do on a bench. When the diff is out drive without it. Puma 110" SW ............................................................. Earth first. Other planets later |
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5th Sep 2018 11:04am |
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| Naks Member Since: 27 Jan 2009 Location: Stellenbosch, ZA Posts: 2588
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Went for a drive on a dirt road earlier, just to see what happens when the diff lock is engaged: same vibrations at the same speeds.
Not sure what this means, but at least I know the ATB works: the track I drove was very muddy & slippery and the 90 drove very stably even without diff lock engaged. Click image to enlarge -- 2010 Defender Puma 90 + BAS remap + Alive IC + Slickshift + Ashcroft ATB rear 2015 Range Rover Sport V8 Supercharged
Defender Puma Workshop Manual: https://bit.ly/2zZ1en9 Discovery 4 Workshop Manual: https://bit.ly/2zXrtKO Range Rover/Sport L320/L322/L494 Workshop Manual: https://bit.ly/2zc58JQ |
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5th Sep 2018 12:12pm |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 16876
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Naks, is it just the rear axle that has an ATB?
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5th Sep 2018 1:04pm |
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