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Defderico



Member Since: 11 Dec 2020
Location: New Caledonia
Posts: 7

France 2002 Defender 90 Td5 SW Alaska White
TD4 110 - alarm module fault
Hello all,

I have a 110 TD4. I live in New Caledonia
I bought a Nanocom and when I plugged it, there was a message that the VIN was not possible to be read
Nanocom company said that maybe the ECU was not the genuine one and the VIN was not filled in

I handed my 110 to the sole LR authorized dealer as they have the professional tool
They can not access to the ECU as the alarm module is "out". This module communicate with the dashboard cluster too
So I need to replace (parts GPB 2.240 + labour GPB 632) :
- alarm module
- transmitter
- receiver
- keys
- electric harness

Is there a process to remove completely this alarm module ?
Can someone help me as I can't afford to pay this sum

Many thanks in advance
Have a nice day

Eric from Nouméa
Post #958374 14th Jul 2022 10:47pm
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Ianh



Member Since: 17 Sep 2018
Location: Essex
Posts: 913

United Kingdom 
Don’t worry, all is not lost, it may not be as bad as you think.

So what year is your defender ? is it a 2.4 or 2.2 ?

Is your alarm unit a 10AS (green) or An ALM CH or DH serial number (black) This can be checked on the RH drive version by removing the driver footwell speaker and looking up, it may be on the other side for a LH drive version.

It could be something as simple as an instrument pack issue which can be addressed by connecting two pins together, else a 10AS can be fixed by a couple of companies out there or if needs an ALM bypass remote key can sell one for circa £400 .

Give us some more info on your vehicle and what the problem is, ie won’t start, and people on here will help.
Post #958383 15th Jul 2022 12:44am
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Defderico



Member Since: 11 Dec 2020
Location: New Caledonia
Posts: 7

France 2002 Defender 90 Td5 SW Alaska White
Hello Ianh,


My 110 is a 2.4 litre 2011 MY (SALLDHMS8BA822472)

A soon as I will bring it back home, I will see the Unit Alarm's model

Technical problem : the car start is normal but the engine is making like a injector clacking when I accelerate, even slightly

Land Rover workshop are not able to access the ECU as the VIN can't be read on it. So they are not able to diagnosed the injection problem

Many thanks

Eric
Post #958386 15th Jul 2022 4:14am
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Ianh



Member Since: 17 Sep 2018
Location: Essex
Posts: 913

United Kingdom 
A 2011 2.4 will have the green Lucas 10AS unit from the factory.
So unless at some point that was replaced due to a fault yours will be the 10AS unit.

When the dealers says the alarm module is out, do they mean it’s not working, not powered or not communicating to the ECU?

I’m struggling to understand why an issue with the 10AS would stop the VIN being read on the Separate engine ECU by dealer diagnostic tools.

How long have you had the vehicle, do you know if the ECU has been replaced at any time ?


There can be issues on the wiring from your 10AS unit to the ECU as it goes via the instrument cluster (IPAC), the issue being dry joints on the IPAC, this can be fixed in two ways, getting the IPAC fixed or cutting and joining two wires from the ipac connector. HOWEVER this issue generally stops the vehicle starting, and that’s not the problem you are experiencing.
More here at bottom of page 7 from Martin. https://www.defender2.net/forum/topic47486...p;start=90.
It’s a long shot but removing the ipac connector, then bridging pins 3 and 4 as a test to see if engine runs better is worth a try. Again see the post from Martin on how to do this test. While bridge is in place You could also see if your Nanocom is now seeing your vin on the ECU.

Martin, site owner and admin, or one of the other experts in this area will be able to provide better advice on how the ECU, 10AS and IPAC interwork and whether the dealer saying a new ALM module will fix the issue with the engine ECU not showing a VIN, which just does not seem right to me.

Note:-
The prices you are being quoted are for a new last Gen ALM module DH serial number, with separate radio element and new style fobs. This is because the 10AS unit is obsolete.

However working second hand 10AS units can be had, and 10AS units can be repaired.https://www.technozen-electronics.co.uk/la...-services/
Post #958417 15th Jul 2022 1:37pm
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Defderico



Member Since: 11 Dec 2020
Location: New Caledonia
Posts: 7

France 2002 Defender 90 Td5 SW Alaska White
Hello Ianh,


I just got my Land back and between showers I took a picture of the module (see below)

The dealer did not specify the trouble with the alarm module. On the invoice I received for "fault finding" they said that it is impossible to communicate with the imobilisation module. The power + ground and connectors was tested = all good / so module to change

I have the DEF since 6 months. I bought it of a bankrupt company without any history of maintenance

As per your advice, can I write directly to Martin to have his expertise ?

Thanking you

Have a good day

Best regards
Eric
Post #960073 31st Jul 2022 7:30am
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Ianh



Member Since: 17 Sep 2018
Location: Essex
Posts: 913

United Kingdom 
Looking at the pic in your gallery I can see it’s a Lucas 10AS unit.

I’ve done a bit of research on why your vin is not showing. See this topic https://www.defender2.net/forum/topic40550...p;start=30

Top of the page, from Pete at bell auto services ( expert in ecu’s, maps etc) you can see a post from him, the point to note is this statement.

“For reference and info... The vin from the instrument pack is transmitted on the CAN nework to the engine ecu and diag port, the engine ecu does not output a vin nunber diagosticlly its self and so only reports/mirrors what is ever inside the instruemnt pack its self in its own way. Even sending an 8 byte request command on CAN addressed directly to the engine ecu on network address 0XE0 command of 03 22 F1 90 00 00 00 00 to request to read VIN will still only ever report the vin seen on the CAN network thats outputted by the instrument pack it self and nothing more. ”

So it may we’ll be an instrument pack issue, or wiring to or from the IPAC to the ECU or IPAC to the AS10, or a CAN bus issue.

Perhaps disconnecting the connectors to these components, cleaning with contact cleaner, then reconnecting is a good basic start to see if that’s the problem.
Post #960132 31st Jul 2022 6:44pm
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Ianh



Member Since: 17 Sep 2018
Location: Essex
Posts: 913

United Kingdom 
As you have a Nanocom Reading this post from BBS guy on another site may help https://www.aulro.com/afvb/electronic-diag...y-car.html

He stated
“To assist where there are problems, we have also thoughtfully provided a VIN tool you can find by selecting Nanocom> Applications>VIN TOOL
We have also provided a USER TEST in the same section where you can check both High and Low Speed CAN BUS's are working as they should.”

So with the Nanocom you could see if you can find the vin on any ECU and check the CAN bus is working.

Re contacting Martin, you could pm him and point him to this topic to see if he has any views, noting he’s running his own business so can only provide free advice when he has any free time.
Post #960225 1st Aug 2022 5:36pm
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Ianh



Member Since: 17 Sep 2018
Location: Essex
Posts: 913

United Kingdom 
Just a thought, but worth a check.
I keep wondering how the engine starts and runs if the 10AS is faulty, and dealer tools can’t talk to the 10AS or to the IPAC or engine ECU (PCM). so I’m wondering if the prior owners have fitted a dummy OBD2 port as an anti theft measure, so trace the OBD2 cable under the dash to see of it connects to another obd2 port that has another obd2 cable and connector added to it. See https://www.dummyobd.com/shop/relocation-land-rover/. If so you can attach your Nanocom to the original real obd2 port and all should work ok.
Post #960241 1st Aug 2022 7:27pm
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Defderico



Member Since: 11 Dec 2020
Location: New Caledonia
Posts: 7

France 2002 Defender 90 Td5 SW Alaska White
Hello Ianh,

Many thanks for your advices and support
I will try a.s.a.p

Have a good day

Bye
Post #960378 3rd Aug 2022 7:19am
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Ianh



Member Since: 17 Sep 2018
Location: Essex
Posts: 913

United Kingdom 
Defderico, did you resolve your issue ?
Post #963731 1st Sep 2022 11:06pm
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Defderico



Member Since: 11 Dec 2020
Location: New Caledonia
Posts: 7

France 2002 Defender 90 Td5 SW Alaska White

Click image to enlarge



Click image to enlarge

Hello Ianh,


For the moment with the Nanocom I tried to read the VIN and test the CAN BUS

You can see below the results

Any advice to move on ?

Thanking you again

Regards

E

Click image to enlarge

ric
Post #965677 22nd Sep 2022 6:26am
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Ianh



Member Since: 17 Sep 2018
Location: Essex
Posts: 913

United Kingdom 
Looks like you have a CAN bus issue, I.e can low not responding, and it’s the can bus that is used for communications between ECU’s IPAC etc and between them and diagnostic tools.

Plus that’s likely why the the engine is not running correctly.

Hopefully an expert in that area will be able to post some guidance.

Ps did you double check that a dummy OBD2 cable has not been fitted ?
Post #965705 22nd Sep 2022 1:36pm
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Ianh



Member Since: 17 Sep 2018
Location: Essex
Posts: 913

United Kingdom 
You could try a CANBUS reset.

This involves removing the negative battery cable and then pressing the brake pedal a few times to discharge any stored capacitance within the loom, ECUs etc. Then leave it 10-15 mins before re connecting the negative lead.

You can then see if that has rectified the canbus issue.

Note. If you have an alarm BBUS fitted you will need to follow this procedure to stop the back up alarm sounding when disconnecting the negative battery terminal.

1) turn the starter switch to "on" and then to "off", then remove the key - don’t start engine.

2) Disconnect the main battery negative terminal WITHIN 15 SECONDS (if it is not disconnected within the 15 seconds then the BBUS will sound as soon as the battery terminals are removed).

You can pre loosen the negative battery clamp to enable removal within the 15 seconds allowed
Post #965729 22nd Sep 2022 5:02pm
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macfrank



Member Since: 05 Nov 2015
Location: somewhere in the north
Posts: 763

Germany 2015 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 SW Keswick Green
Great advice Ian.

Check the CAN first. Everything else could be a result of that and replacing your complete alarm system at this stage of fault finding sounds like a rip off by a lazy dealer.

A little background info: the Puma has a high speed CAN bus. A CAN bus has two wires, which are twisted like telephone wires. One wire is called CAN high, the other CAN low. The bus will only work, if both lines are ok. They carry the same information but with different voltages, to eliminate/detect interferences.

This is the CAN bus wiring from 2012 on, I guess it's similar on a MY2011?

Click image to enlarge


So the nanocom reports that something is wrong with the "HS CAN L" (High Speed CAN, Low line).
Post #965747 22nd Sep 2022 9:07pm
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MK



Member Since: 28 Aug 2008
Location: Santiago
Posts: 1993

Chile 2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 SW Chawton White
Try www.m1n1.de Puma 110" SW

.............................................................
Earth first. Other planets later
Post #965771 23rd Sep 2022 8:18am
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