 | Home > V8 > Hot cold, hot and cold. GEMs v8 cooling system |
 
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| Hufflepuff Member Since: 25 Oct 2014 Location: Hampshire Posts: 723   
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Please save me from the embarrassment of having to contact Roland (ACR) once again to admit I'm still not got it started...
I have one of these shiny badboys from Allisport:  Click image to enlarge and I am trying to work out how to pipe it to the engine, as well as the heater matrix at the back of the engine bay. When I picked up the engine, Roland instructed me that it was configured to the specification of a P38 Range Rover, and so I cannot directly compare it to the original 3.5 carburettor engine which I took out the vehicle. The problem I have it - what connects to where? If we look at the engine: Click image to enlarge then I suspect I need to connect port A to the top left port on the radiator, as on the original, albeit with a 90 degree rotation on port A compared to the original. Port B then needs to be connected to the return from the bottom of the radiator, although it is less clear if this is a direct connection as I will explain below. The question is - how do I connect the heater matrix up to the engine? I can see one hole - port C here: Click image to enlarge but I can't find any more holes for the return from the heater matrix! If I look under, I see port E and F, which I am hoping are for the oil cooler built into the radiator: Click image to enlarge Click image to enlarge but there are no holes for the heater matrix! I've also got this cheeky little port G to fit to something, hmm... Click image to enlarge Doing a bit of research on the matter, it seems that the P38 Range Rover used a 'heart' plastic item which housed the thermostat, and this fits between the bottom radiator hose and port B above. Click image to enlarge One of the other ports off this device is then the return from the heater matrix. No idea what the other port is used for... 
My confusion is that I'm fairly sure there is a thermostat already on my engine, which I can see through the hole in port A. I don't particulary want to remove the housing to confirm as I don't want to disturb the seal until I absolutely have to. P38 engines didn't have two thermostats on them did they? If they did not, and I do have a thermostat already on my engine, then what do I do about the return from the heater matrix? If I look at a few Rover EFi engine pictures, such as the 50th Anniversary Defender: Click image to enlarge or a NAS Defender: Click image to enlarge (is this also a NAS? Did they do both 3.9 and 4.0 engines in NAS land?) Click image to enlarge or even a p38 engine bay: Click image to enlarge they all seem to use variations on the heater matrix pipes. I guess I will have to construct the top hose out of bits of pipe and join them, hopefully not an impassable task. Any suggestions on what I do about the connections? Interestingly if I look at Will's excellent (https://www.lrworkshop.com/diagrams/land-r...fold_53402) LRWorkshop site, I see the following diagram: Click image to enlarge then this suggests I can order parts 6 and 7 to connect to the inlet of the heater matrix, and part 22 for the outlet - but then what does the other end plug into?[/url] 2005 Td5 90 XS 1989 V8 110 CSW |
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3rd Jul 2021 11:22pm |
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| Romadog Member Since: 07 Jul 2011 Location: Powys Posts: 1746 |
PM sent
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4th Jul 2021 11:32am |
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| Hufflepuff Member Since: 25 Oct 2014 Location: Hampshire Posts: 723
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Awesome information, thank you so much Romadog. I had no idea the US got both engines, given how little time the Defender was sold there.
Looking into those part numbers now, what a massive help this is to me, I have been worrying about this for months.  2005 Td5 90 XS
1989 V8 110 CSW |
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4th Jul 2021 1:35pm |
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| Hufflepuff Member Since: 25 Oct 2014 Location: Hampshire Posts: 723
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I appear to be running into some challenges.
Armed with the excellent data which Romadog provided, a few shopping trips later we have new parts to fit! First up, the bottom water hose, PCH116030: Click image to enlarge The port to the heater matrix is a little closer to the exhaust manifold than I would have liked at under a couple of inches, so I will look to see if some sort of heat shielding can be manufactured. The long smaller diameter pipe coming off the bottom is long, must be well over 1 metre in length. Any suggestions for where the other end of this is intended to be plumbed into? I assume the expansion tank? So far so good, now onto the top tubing for the heater matrix. I present you with exhibits AWR6631 and AWR6632 : Click image to enlarge along with ERR5474 and ERR5473 (not shown here) Click image to enlarge and all the parts shown in the diagram for: https://www.lrworkshop.com/diagrams/land-r...ipes_52990 Click image to enlarge Click image to enlarge Click image to enlarge Click image to enlarge Click image to enlarge A minor problem came up where the LRW lists the bolt for the mounting bracket as part number: SH605071 - 5/16" UNF x 7/8" but this is far too small to fit the hole on the back of the engine, assuming I'm trying to plug it into the right place (I can't see how it can be anywhere else). The thread on my head is a 3/8" UNC. I don't know if the listed part number is just wrong, or I have an odd hole size. I've only got a 2" length bolt in the stash, so this will have to get changed for a more appropriate bolt at a future date. Click image to enlarge Click image to enlarge Click image to enlarge After fitting the assembled pipework, it became evident of my mistake number one. The pipes AWR6631 and AWR6632 replace the two L-shaped pipes shown in the diagram 
Click image to enlarge These L-shape pipes only run half way across the engine, which if my memory serves me is where they would have been on the original 3.5 engine, where they plumbed into the top of the V. Oh well, not too an expensive mistake (yet). Click image to enlarge Next up, the stubby pipe which attached the shaped metal pipe to the water pump housing: Click image to enlarge Click image to enlarge Click image to enlarge That fits fine, but then we run into the bigger problem. How on earth does the longer metal pipe fit? Click image to enlarge If we refer back to the 50th Anniversary model: Click image to enlarge this pipe should sit behind the alternator somehow, to drop down to the lower hose connection? Well I can't see how this can possible fit on mine, there is no room to drop the pipe behind the alternator? Have I missed something obvious here? I don't see any alternative than attempting to fabricate a pipe to run down the outside of the block
Click image to enlarge Finally, fitting the two longer top heater matrix pipes seems a little unsatisfactory, are they really just supposed to flop free on top of the plug leads like this? Click image to enlarge 2005 Td5 90 XS 1989 V8 110 CSW |
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1st Aug 2021 8:55pm |
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| GREENI Member Since: 22 Aug 2010 Location: staffs Posts: 10358 
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I can do a video of my whole system if you want. It’s easier than typing?
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1st Aug 2021 9:30pm |
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| Hufflepuff Member Since: 25 Oct 2014 Location: Hampshire Posts: 723
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Well I would not turn the offer down Greeni, but please don't go to a great deal of trouble. Just show me what I'm doing wrong with that that down pipe please! 2005 Td5 90 XS
1989 V8 110 CSW |
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1st Aug 2021 10:07pm |
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| GREENI Member Since: 22 Aug 2010 Location: staffs Posts: 10358
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I threw this together this morning before going to work.
Lots of waffling. Terrible filming. Though i hope it can help. Then it didn’t fire first time as usual 
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2nd Aug 2021 9:03am |
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| Hufflepuff Member Since: 25 Oct 2014 Location: Hampshire Posts: 723
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Really useful thank you Steve - thank you so much for taking the time to make and upload that, I think I might owe you a beverage of your choosing.
Looks like I have a different set of pipes and hoses to what you have, which might explain why I have not been able to work out how to join to the bottom hose, I shall look into it. 2005 Td5 90 XS 1989 V8 110 CSW |
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2nd Aug 2021 9:31am |
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| GREENI Member Since: 22 Aug 2010 Location: staffs Posts: 10358
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Yes, i don’t have the plastic ‘heart’.
I’m not saying my way is right, it’s just how i did it and it works. I pm’d you my number so message anytime on whatsapp, i can do video call if there’s anything you’d like to look at again. |
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2nd Aug 2021 9:46am |
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| mikeh501 Member Since: 07 Jan 2013 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 1142
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mine is practically the same as greeni's. seems to work
ive got shiny allisport rad too, but slightly different to yours (2x oil coolers & straight top connection not 90deg). Click image to enlarge What amazes me after seeing greeni's and another v8 recently is the mahoosive difference in heat generated by two 4.6's and a 3.9. mine still disappating heat an hour after switching it off whereas the 3.9 was practically cold in that time. |
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2nd Aug 2021 8:02pm |
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| Tigwelder Member Since: 01 Feb 2021 Location: Anglesey Posts: 1 
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Click image to enlarge Click image to enlarge I think your layout does not go behind the alternator bit around it using PEP000090 |
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21st Aug 2021 11:45am |
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| Shroppy Member Since: 25 Feb 2016 Location: Shropshire Posts: 847 
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How are you getting on with this Hufflepuff? I'm in the process of stripping down my donor GEMS engine so can photograph the plumbing if it would be helpful?
Side note - where is your galv bulkhead from? Greeni, can't seem to access your video, any chance you could re-post it please? 1985 127 V8 Build Thread Series 2 109" Series 1 80" |
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19th Oct 2021 5:27pm |
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| GREENI Member Since: 22 Aug 2010 Location: staffs Posts: 10358
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Sorry, i deleted it
 i’m always able to do another when you’re ready. |
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19th Oct 2021 7:55pm |
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| Shroppy Member Since: 25 Feb 2016 Location: Shropshire Posts: 847
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Thank you, won't be for a while
 as I still need to decide on a rad etc.  1985 127 V8 Build Thread
Series 2 109" Series 1 80" |
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19th Oct 2021 8:09pm |
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