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madfrankie



Member Since: 10 Oct 2016
Location: Hertfordshire
Posts: 343

England 2007 Defender 90 Puma 2.4 SW Stornoway Grey
Heart transplant

All,
Not sure if this has been discussed before.

With the current Vilification of all things diesel and my occasional need to drive into London,
I am thinking of possibly swapping out my 2.4 TDCI lump for petrol.
Has anyone done this? what lump should I be looking at?
What are the benefits/pitfalls ?
I'm not sure that the latter models were available in petrol.
If I can't fit a petrol, Would i be better fitting a later 2.2TDCI with lower mileage/ better emissions?
Will I need a gearbox change as well for a petrol swap??
What sort of cost am I looking at?
Lot of questions sorry.
Thanks "Of Course, Of course, I ain't asking . I'm telling!!"

Post #861089 12th Oct 2020 8:35am
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LR90XS2011



Member Since: 05 Apr 2011
Location: bickenhill
Posts: 2992

United Kingdom 2011 Defender 90 Puma 2.4 XS CSW Galway Green

see JEmotorworks ECOTEC conversion, may be DIYable DEFENDER 90 TDCI XS,

I hope everyone is well and your land rovers make you happy

Post #861099 12th Oct 2020 9:14am
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Avelingporter



Member Since: 25 Jan 2016
Location: Southampton
Posts: 340

United Kingdom 2016 Defender 90 Puma 2.2 HT Corris Grey

Keep the 2.4 and take the train in to London. Much cheaper than trying to swap out the engine.

Post #861123 12th Oct 2020 11:34am
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Ianh



Member Since: 17 Sep 2018
Location: Essex
Posts: 181

United Kingdom 

I’m waiting 10 years, at that point I expect full electric vehicle technology will be sufficiently advanced and at the right cost point to facilitate a cost effective conversion to a defender. At that point I expect there will be a couple of options.

1.Remove engine , fuel tank and exhaust and replace with single electric motor that connects to the gearbox with battery location options being in engine bay , void left by fuel tank removal, or voids within the chassis.

2. Remove engine, fuel tank, exhaust, gearbox, transfer box, props, diffs and axles and replace with four individually controlled motors, one at each wheel. This leaves a vast amount of room and options to fit batteries.

By this time I expect that the infrastructure will be there. In my mind all electric vehicle infrastructure would be based on leasing batteries. You pull up to the service station. All batteries are accessible from the underside of vehicle and are clipped in. All batteries are in a standard modular design. As you pull up your vehicle is scanned. The forecourt below your vehicle opens, you battery / batteries are removed, new battery / batteries are installed. You only pay for the power you have used.
This gets rid of the need to wait for batteries to be charged why you wait and allows the banks of stored batteries at the service stations to be recharged with renewable wind farms, charged at off peak times etc

A little off subject, however what I’m effectively saying is why go for the middle step by going for an economical petrol alternative, wait a little longer and go whole hog electric.

Ps .if I had the money for the conversion, and ongoing running costs, I would love a 5.0l supercharged V8. Not green at all but I just love the thought of it. Alas it’s just a fantasy and to keep my beloved defender I expect I will be going for the option 2 electric conversion in circa 10 years and in the mean time if I need to get into a major city or town with restrictions I will use public transport or hire a suitable vehicle for the day.

Pps. In 20-30 years I expect all vehicles on the road will be driverless, people won’t own them, you just use an app on your phone and one arrives to take you to your destination. Human driven vehicles consigned to private off road or track use.

Post #861125 12th Oct 2020 11:39am
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Rashers



Member Since: 21 Jun 2015
Location: Norwich
Posts: 2713

United Kingdom 2014 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 USW Corris Grey

The 2.2 is still only Euro 5, so you would still be charged and probably banned from driving it into the capitol as the thumb screws on diesels are twisted tighter.

Installing a different engine would possibly cause you insurance issues and may not solve the problem as the ANPR cameras of the congestion charge may still see your truck as an evil diesel.

I would have agreed and said take the train, but I am not sure I would want to do that in the present climate. Maybe if it is only occasionally, I think I would hire a car and keep my truck as it is.

Post #861126 12th Oct 2020 11:47am
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markb110



Member Since: 22 May 2010
Location: Guildford
Posts: 1041

England 2002 Defender 90 Td5 HT Epsom Green

Just hire a car

Now new vehicles are getting Gas Particulate Filters fitted expect 'older' petrol cars to be targeted to make councils extra money (i mean to save a polar bear)

You could spend a lot of money (including insurance) and be back at square one in a couple of years time.

Plus diesel isn't going anywhere until there is an alternative to powering commercial vehicles....

Post #861134 12th Oct 2020 12:45pm
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markb110



Member Since: 22 May 2010
Location: Guildford
Posts: 1041

England 2002 Defender 90 Td5 HT Epsom Green

Update

Just read that Birmingham will from June 1st next year will be introducing a £8.00 per day charge for Euro 4 petrol engines and older (as well as diesel)

Expect London to follow ......

Post #861167 12th Oct 2020 3:15pm
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Rashers



Member Since: 21 Jun 2015
Location: Norwich
Posts: 2713

United Kingdom 2014 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 USW Corris Grey

A bit off topic, but following on from Ianh's comments above, I think we are witnessing the start of the end for personal motoring.

As City's become more locked down with emission requirements, more and more people will make the decision not to bother with owning a car. We ae witnessing this with the younger generation many of whom don't bother learning to drive any more. Whether this is because of environmental reasons, pressure from Sir David Attenborough or just that it is an expense you can do without.

I don't think it will happen next year, and it may take decades, but carefree personal motoring might be at the end of the road.

Saying that, I have no idea what those of us will do who live in the sticks? Live miles from a railway (even before Dr Beechings cuts) and buses through the village will mean there has been an accident and they are on diversion.

Just something I was considering. Very interesting what you wrote Ianh. One comment on autonomous vehicles and the on demand system. These are very much like the taxi idea. I apologise before I upset any taxi drivers, but the whole problem with taxis and dial a rides in general is the amount of driving round unloaded. Ask any truck driver. The job is only successful when you get a return load. These maybe lean green vehicles, but everything has an environmental cost and empty trips are not friendly.

I think my Defender is safe for the foreseeable future Laughing

Post #861182 12th Oct 2020 4:52pm
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87110



Member Since: 14 Nov 2020
Location: Athens
Posts: 3

Greece 

A bit off topic too, but I am in that younger generation and sadly, I can confirm. I love cars and driving, but many people my age aren't bothering with/planning on owning a car or even getting a driver's license at all. Most see it as a tool to get you from point A to point B and I understand that, but I know quite a few people who just think that owning a car is too inconvenient if they have the option to take the train or bus.

As for the engine swap, I think fitment with the transmission would be fine if you get an engine from the same modelyear though I think that all transmissions are compatible with all engines. I can only assume how expensive it would be and I'd go for the petrol engine. There is one more option you could consider, and that would be to try to hybridize the defender, though costs and reliability would probably be horrible and I'm not sure if you could somehow get around emission expenses like that.

Good luck with whatever you choose to do.

Post #868998 22nd Nov 2020 4:59pm
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AT1963



Member Since: 08 Jul 2020
Location: Leicestershire
Posts: 60

United Kingdom 2006 Defender 90 Td5 Black LE Java Black

Sounds like its all over!!!
Don't give in so easily remember we have a voice. I like driving and plan to continue doing just that.
If your thing is an APP and to summon a driverless car then good for you but its not for me.
Bend over and accept your lot Rolling with laughter

Post #869040 22nd Nov 2020 8:17pm
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the gamekeeper



Member Since: 01 Jan 2010
Location: Surrey
Posts: 83

England 2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Tonga Green

Series 3. 2.25 petrol get the right year no tax no mot. Win win

Post #869050 22nd Nov 2020 8:55pm
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AT1963



Member Since: 08 Jul 2020
Location: Leicestershire
Posts: 60

United Kingdom 2006 Defender 90 Td5 Black LE Java Black

something to consider:

The dirty secret of electric vehicles
A charging port is seen on a Mercedes Benz EQC 400 4Matic electric vehicle at the Canadian International AutoShow in Toronto, Ontario, Canada, February 13, 2019. REUTERS/Mark Blinch - RC19CFEBE1A0
Green, but at what cost?
Image: REUTERS/Mark Blinch
27 Mar 2019
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The number of electric vehicles on the world’s roads is rising fast. Latest figures show there are more than three million and sales are growing at close to 75% a year. But now doubts have been raised about the ethics of buying one.

Amnesty International says human rights abuses, including the use of child labour, in the extraction of minerals, like cobalt, used to make the batteries that power electric vehicles is undermining ethical claims about the cars.

Kumi Naidoo, Amnesty’s Secretary General, told the recent Nordic EV Summit in Oslo, that climate change should not be tackled at the expense of human rights. “Without radical changes, the batteries which power green vehicles will continue to be tainted by human rights abuses,” he said.

Cobalt is a big health risk to those - including children - that mine it.
Cobalt is a big health risk to those - including children - that mine it.
Image: Amnesty International
Child labour

Amnesty points to serious health risks to child and adult workers in cobalt mines in the Democratic Republic of Congo, documented in a report it issued. More than half the world’s cobalt comes from southern DRC, much of it from artisanal mines that produce 20% of the country’s output.

Artisanal miners as young as seven were seen by researchers who visited nine sites including deep mines dug by hand using basic tools. Miners, the youngest of whom were earning as little as $1 a day, reported suffering chronic lung disease from exposure to cobalt dust.

Cobalt from these mines is sold on to major producers. No country has laws requiring producers to report on their supply chains, which Amnesty says means the chance electric vehicle batteries are “tainted with child labour and other abuses” is unacceptably high.

Battery manufacture now accounts for 60% of the 125,000 tonnes of cobalt mined globally each year.

A move last year by the London Metal Exchange to ban the sale of tainted cobalt was opposed by a consortium of 14 NGOs, including Amnesty, on the grounds it would simply drive the trade underground. They called for greater traceability of the mineral’s sources.

The World Economic Forum's Global Battery Alliance notes two major challenges:

"First, raw materials needed for batteries are extracted at a high human and environmental toll. This includes, for example, child labour, health and safety hazards in informal work, poverty and pollution. Second, a recycling challenge looms over the eleven million tonnes of spent lithium-ion batteries forecast to be discarded by 2030, with few systems in place to enable reuse and recycling in a circular economy for batteries."

The OECD Forum on Responsible Mineral Supply Chains meets in Paris next month, where members are expected to demand companies identify their cobalt sources. Apple, BMW, Daimler, Renault, and battery maker Samsung SDI have already agreed to publish their supply chain data.

Amnesty says most manufacturing of lithium-ion batteries takes place in China, South Korea and Japan, where electricity generation remains dependent on coal and other fossil fuels. They said makers should disclose the carbon footprint of their products.

Electric vehicle sales are in the fast lane.
Electric vehicle sales are in the fast lane.
Image: ev-volumes.com
Accelerating industry

Electric car ownership is rising fast. The International Energy Agency predicts there will be 125 million in use worldwide by 2030 and potentially double that number if governments step up the pace of legislative change.

Last year, 2.1 million new electric vehicles were sold worldwide. China is the world’s largest electric car market, accounting for 1.2 million - 56% of all electric vehicles sold in 2018. China also accounts for 99% of sales of electric trucks, buses, motorcycles and scooters.

The US came a distant second with 361,000 new electric cars sold in 2018, almost half of which were the new Tesla 3 model. In terms of market share, Norway leads the way - 49% of new cars sold were pure or hybrid electric.

The pressure to go green is increasing as bans on the sale of new fossil-fuelled cars loom in Europe. Germany will stop the sale of all new petrol and diesel cars from 2030, Scotland from 2032, and France and the UK from 2040.

Have you read?
China is winning the electric vehicle race
Electric vehicles should overtake traditional sales in just 20 years
Why businesses are nothing without strong human rights
Long road ahead

But the goal of zero-emission driving is still a long way off. Electric cars still only account for 2.4% of global new sales and despite Norway’s stellar sales rate, electric cars still account for only one in eight of vehicles on the road in Oslo.

Sales in other European countries are much lower. In Italy only 0.26% of new sales last year were electric cars, with buyers still preferring diesel over petrol. Even in Spain, which is a major car producer, only 0.5% of new sales were electric.

Post #869054 22nd Nov 2020 9:09pm
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