↓ Advertise on Defender2 ↓

Home > Puma (Tdci) > Help! Surging power in 2.2
Post Reply  Down to end
Page 2 of 3 <123>
Print this entire topic · 
The Fox



Member Since: 24 Mar 2014
Location: Shrewsbury
Posts: 93

United Kingdom 2014 Defender 90 Puma 2.2 XS CSW Corris Grey
Quote:
Yes mate, dual rotary potentiometers.

They should be the same.


My reader shows 'APP_D' and APP_E' as sensor names. Both rise and fall with pedal application, but are not identical values.

APP_D seems to give a reading between 29.0 at idle and 100.0 at foot-to-the-floor.
APP_E gives a reading between 7.1 at idle and 35.3 at foot-to-the-floor

Is anyone else able/willing to check what their readings are?
Post #829466 6th May 2020 7:41am
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
Marks Landy



Member Since: 09 Feb 2015
Location: Cheshire
Posts: 296

United Kingdom 1985 Defender 90 200 Tdi SW Java Black
Just tested accelerator position pedal outputs on my 2.2 Puma-

Idle = 0% on both channels
Full power = 100% on both channels

Both channels rise and fall together throughout the range of selected pedal position.

It sounds like you have a hard fault on APP E

I would clean the connectors pins & sockets before ordering any parts.
Post #829667 7th May 2020 1:05pm
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
The Fox



Member Since: 24 Mar 2014
Location: Shrewsbury
Posts: 93

United Kingdom 2014 Defender 90 Puma 2.2 XS CSW Corris Grey
Quote:
Just tested accelerator position pedal outputs on my 2.2 Puma-

Idle = 0% on both channels
Full power = 100% on both channels

Both channels rise and fall together throughout the range of selected pedal position.

It sounds like you have a hard fault on APP E

I would clean the connectors pins & sockets before ordering any parts.


This is great information - many thanks for confirming. I'm off to find the sensor plug and some contact grease!
Post #829674 7th May 2020 1:16pm
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
Marks Landy



Member Since: 09 Feb 2015
Location: Cheshire
Posts: 296

United Kingdom 1985 Defender 90 200 Tdi SW Java Black
All sorted?
Post #830636 12th May 2020 9:36am
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
The Fox



Member Since: 24 Mar 2014
Location: Shrewsbury
Posts: 93

United Kingdom 2014 Defender 90 Puma 2.2 XS CSW Corris Grey
Unfortunately not.

I disconnected the pedal electrics (more difficult/awkward job than it should be!) and cleaned the contacts before reseating the plug and measuring again...

... same readings.

So either the variable resistors in the pedal unit itself are broken, or it's my reader which is giving false-results. Out of interest, what were your readings exactly, and are you using a posh reader or a cheapo one like mine?

APP_D - 0.00 > 100.0?
APP_E - Identical to above?


My readings at idle and at pedal-to-the-metal




Post #830650 12th May 2020 10:27am
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
Marks Landy



Member Since: 09 Feb 2015
Location: Cheshire
Posts: 296

United Kingdom 1985 Defender 90 200 Tdi SW Java Black
Ive been using a GAP IID tool that connects to my iPhone via Bluetooth, its not cheap but a fantastic tool.

I would order a replacement Pedal Position Sensor, slave it in a and see what happens.
Post #830763 12th May 2020 7:19pm
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
The Fox



Member Since: 24 Mar 2014
Location: Shrewsbury
Posts: 93

United Kingdom 2014 Defender 90 Puma 2.2 XS CSW Corris Grey
Developments:

Pedal unit replaced - no difference in readings and issue persists.

Found diesel around the fuel filter housing - fuel filter was wobbly on the mounting, but can't seem to get it to NOT be wobbly.

Gentlemen: How secure are your fuel filters? Mine won't seem to screw up securely like an oil-filter and no matter how many times i re-seat it, it's always easy to move around on the housing.
Post #836709 12th Jun 2020 7:21am
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
The Fox



Member Since: 24 Mar 2014
Location: Shrewsbury
Posts: 93

United Kingdom 2014 Defender 90 Puma 2.2 XS CSW Corris Grey
update on this - absolutely no progress at all.

The only additional symtom I've found is that the surging is MUCH worse when the tank level is low.

The fuel filter area continues to weep diesel - not matter how many times I re-seat the filter and how tight I turn it. Seems to be always a bit 'wobbly'. Nothing like the tight fit of an oil filter etc.

V frustrating, the truck is almost undrivable at this point.
Post #843685 14th Jul 2020 3:23pm
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
90 Dreamer



Member Since: 13 Jul 2019
Location: Oop North
Posts: 2045

United Kingdom 2016 Defender 90 Puma 2.2 HT Corris Grey
Sounds most likely its sucking air and a faulty filter.......
Post #843755 14th Jul 2020 7:39pm
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
HardCharger



Member Since: 03 Mar 2013
Location: Manila, SFO, Amsterdam
Posts: 669

2011 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 SW Stornoway Grey
Fuel filter should be snug when installed tight with no wobble.

I had the wobble when using a fuel filter from the blue box. It would be wound on tight but you could still wobble it from side to side. Got a new OEM fuel filter from a reliable source and the problem I was experiencing went away.
Post #843807 15th Jul 2020 12:13am
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
Marks Landy



Member Since: 09 Feb 2015
Location: Cheshire
Posts: 296

United Kingdom 1985 Defender 90 200 Tdi SW Java Black
Is it a Genuine fuel filter?

I have had problems with OEM Stanadyne filter “keying”. The Genuine fuel filter fits a lot more positively.
Post #844165 16th Jul 2020 9:27pm
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
The Fox



Member Since: 24 Mar 2014
Location: Shrewsbury
Posts: 93

United Kingdom 2014 Defender 90 Puma 2.2 XS CSW Corris Grey
Replaced filter and housing with genuine - noticeable difference in quality and security of fit...

... still surging...

...new symtom - it does it MUCH worse when the tank is low. I half-filled today and it didn't surge at all for 10/15 mins...
Post #849247 11th Aug 2020 7:20am
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
Marks Landy



Member Since: 09 Feb 2015
Location: Cheshire
Posts: 296

United Kingdom 1985 Defender 90 200 Tdi SW Java Black
Sorry to read you're still having a nightmare.

I guess your next logical step is removing the fuel pump and looking for foreign objects getting sucked into the pump inlet and checking for chafed wires / burnt or dirty electrical connectors.

If nothing obvious try wiggling the wires around the pump with a meter connected looking for a change in resistance.

Fingers crossed its not the pump on its way out £££ Big Cry
Post #849271 11th Aug 2020 8:47am
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
The Fox



Member Since: 24 Mar 2014
Location: Shrewsbury
Posts: 93

United Kingdom 2014 Defender 90 Puma 2.2 XS CSW Corris Grey
Update on this - no progress - it's definitely worse when it's wet/damp!

Sounds v stupid - but when the tank is at medium-level (it barely surges at all when brimmed) it surges much more often and far more aggressively when turning left...

... water ingress into electrics? ...
... traction control involved in some way? ...
... fuel sloshing to the right side of the tank? ...
... electrical connector loose so bad contact? ...

I'm having to consider taking it somewhere for it to be looked at - but frankly can't afford to pay for diagnostics.

It's a 2.2 - so I don't think VCV's are an issue on that engine?
Maybe I should disconnect the EGR and see if it gets better, albeit it will cause an MIL which I'll have to clear?

I just can't make the connection between :

wet/raining = worse
full-tank = better
medium/low = terrible
medium/low tank + turning left (uphill) = like riding a bronco
Post #865216 3rd Nov 2020 2:02pm
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
HardCharger



Member Since: 03 Mar 2013
Location: Manila, SFO, Amsterdam
Posts: 669

2011 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 SW Stornoway Grey
The only thing that I can think of now is that maybe you need a new fuel pick up assembly with the built in fuel pump. Could be that your current unit is kaputt.

I had the problem before of fuel starvation when reaching 3/4 full tank but no issues when topped off. Looked high and low as well. As a last resort, ordered a new fuel pick up assembly and tank seals. When the old one was removed, it was found that the bulb assembly at the bottom of the pick up unit was gone and that the hoses were just held in place by twist ties and a few wires. Turns out that one of the hoses got loose of the wire securing it and that is what was sucking in air into my fuel system causing all kinds of problems. With the new unit and seals in, my issues relating to this have vanished and I can now run below 3/4 full tank without worrying about where to tank up or if I’m going to have to push.

While my unit is a 2.4, your fuel pick up assembly seems to be the only thing you haven’t replaced yet. Did you inspect it when you removed it to clean the tank? Perhaps the electrical connections for the pump were not re-connected properly?

I hope this helps
Post #865330 4th Nov 2020 7:38am
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
Post Reply  Back to top
Page 2 of 3 <123>
All times are GMT

Jump to  
Previous Topic | Next Topic >
Posting Rules
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum



Site Copyright © 2006-2024 Futuranet Ltd & Martin Lewis
DEFENDER2.NET RSS Feed - All Forums