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Tommo



Member Since: 19 Dec 2013
Location: Leicestershire
Posts: 830

United Kingdom 2006 Defender 90 Td5 Black LE Java Black
Exactly the point about driving too fast....cars will be damaged. Bet the dick who drove the D3 thought he/she could drive as fast as possible as its a LR and designed for it Rolling with laughter
Post #787489 18th Aug 2019 2:51pm
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Zed



Member Since: 07 Oct 2017
Location: In the woods
Posts: 3000

United Kingdom 2010 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 XS CSW Santorini Black
100inch wrote:
DSC-off wrote:
Almost as funny as people that don't own recent JLR products getting excited about another new one.

DSC-off.
You should get a medal for the best post in the entire 2020 Defender section. I simply couldn't be bothered facing the backlash writing a comment along the same lines a long time ago.
But lets be specific first.
I am grateful for every single person who supports the brand with their enthusiasm. Thank you to all of you!
However, if it comes to future products there are only two type of people who count. The ones buying it and the ones buying another brand/product due to JLR not matching their needs. And for both cases we are talking recent and regular purchases. Oh and for those having/ buying Jeep or other brands. Don't want to hear about it, don't care. Go to the respective sites. Always makes me laugh on related forums reading about people, trading in their RR/RRS for something at the fraction of the price and having a big write up how good it is. Thanks very much but please move on. Away from me...
Or the independent suspension. Everyone who complains about it, please show me your current setup. Triple bypass or internal bypass shocks? Dual rate? No. Guess you are still stuck in 1970's then. But good news. You can still buy other 4x4 with drum brakes and leaf springs for premium money. Remember the Santana S10 fever few years ago? Wonder how much enthusiasm is left.
The message is very easy. You don't like it, don't to buy it.
Rant over. m


So much to disagree with on this post but lets focus on your point in bold.
Very few people buy new (non Defender) Land Rover products. I read it's less than 10% with the vast majority on PCP hire type agreements which is way above industry standard. They may be the registered keeper but they do not own the car. That also means they aren't allowed to modify it, and let's be honest that is very much part of the appeal of Defender ownership. Who can blame them though? Land Rover make the least reliable cars money can buy. Add the fact parts are ridiculously overpriced plus dealer satisfaction woeful and you can't blame folks for choosing to lease instead of purchasing. Once the cars are out of warranty they are financial time bombs, often virtually being written off just because a part failure means it's not economical to fix.

So before you ask about people supporting the brand why not run a poll on here asking how many spent their hard earned actually buying and maintaining their Series/ Defender instead of hiring for a couple of years like the majority of other Land Rover products. Then come back and tell us about supporting the brand.
Post #787835 20th Aug 2019 6:59am
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blackwolf



Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 16809

United Kingdom 2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Stornoway Grey
AndrewS wrote:
...
Why? I have found the air suspension to be very reliable, in fact I have never ever had any failures and I have used the vehicles off road with heavy loads. The component prices are no more expensive than normal springs. Clearly if you drive like a dick you will break components regardless of suspension type.
...


I totally agree. Whilst there are many reasons why I am unlikely to buy a New Defender in the near future (although one day my Disco2 might be replaced by one) air suspension is not a reason.

Air suspension has advanced a great deal since the air-sprung P38 and Disco2 and is, even on a Landrover vehicle, very reliable. It would be moderately interesting to know what proportion of the vehicles on the UK's roads today are air-sprung, but since just about every HGV now is (and has to be for "road-friendly" suspension I believe) it will be a surprising proportion.

It's a shame that so many people do routinely "drive like a dick"!
Post #787841 20th Aug 2019 7:34am
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blackrangie



Member Since: 07 Jul 2019
Location: sydney
Posts: 181

Australia 
100Inch..Noticed you are in the UK, Land Rover and Toyota are on par reliability wise according to the latest JD power survey where both sell multiple 4x4 models & multiple fuelled engines. And apparently even then most of the problems that do occur on Land Rovers these days are infotainment related and not trip ending issues.

Click image to enlarge
Post #787842 20th Aug 2019 7:36am
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AMBxx



Member Since: 24 Jul 2016
Location: York
Posts: 980

United Kingdom 2015 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 XS CSW Orkney Grey
I'm never convinced with those reliability studies - I think customer expectations need to be taken into account (I spend all day helping companies analyse data btw).
If I buy a cheapo Skoda and have a slight rattle in the back, I just accept it as one of those things. When I bought a Mercedes with a persistent rattle, I kept going back to the dealer to have it fixed as I don't think it's acceptable in a car of that standard.
Would be more useful to break them down at each price point for a fairer comparison.
Post #787854 20th Aug 2019 10:02am
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milesr3



Member Since: 12 Feb 2013
Location: Suffolk
Posts: 873

2016 Defender 90 Puma 2.2 XS CSW Keswick Green
I am also sceptical with these dependability surveys and tend to agree that there is unconcious bias from Skoda owners for them to finish consistently high. How do you explain VW & SEAT finishing mid-table and Audi near the bottom if it's not expectation bias.
Post #787858 20th Aug 2019 10:52am
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RFT



Member Since: 13 Nov 2010
Location: Cheshire
Posts: 673

United Kingdom 2010 Defender 130 Puma 2.4 HCPU Zermatt Silver
With an Audi A3 that has broken down and left my wife at the side of the road 5 times in last 6 years I fully support Audi being at the bottom of the list. 130 Puma HCPU with an Artica 240LR Demountable Camper
Post #787864 20th Aug 2019 11:27am
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AMBxx



Member Since: 24 Jul 2016
Location: York
Posts: 980

United Kingdom 2015 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 XS CSW Orkney Grey
milesr3 wrote:
I am also sceptical with these dependability surveys and tend to agree that there is unconcious bias from Skoda owners for them to finish consistently high. How do you explain VW & SEAT finishing mid-table and Audi near the bottom if it's not expectation bias.


I guess it also show just how bl**dy awful Fiat must be!!
Post #787881 20th Aug 2019 12:44pm
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100inch



Member Since: 15 May 2012
Location: Brunswick
Posts: 406

Australia 2010 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 CSW Santorini Black
So much to disagree with on this post but lets focus on your point in bold.
Very few people buy....blah, blah... poll on here asking how many spent their hard earned actually buying and maintaining their Series/ Defender instead of hiring for a couple of years like the majority of other Land Rover products. Then come back and tell us about supporting the brand.[/quote]

To me Land Rover ownership is not about money which I think really makes a positive change to other car brands. But for you Zed, I will try to explain it in a more blunt approach.
My current LR fleet includes 8 cars, ranging from 1949 to 2018. That's including 3 Defender's including a 50th and 3 Series 1. Latest addition to the fleet is a 2018 RRS SDV6 HSE Dynamic which I bought new and has been seen offroad. I don't see myself as any form of VIP, 'special' or similar, because I know people who run fleets of Defenders and trade their RR everytime there is a new colour available. My selection fits into my more important financial life decisions and reflects my enthusiasm with the brand, without going over the top.
You will be more surprised to hear that I actually buy cars! New! Obviously my money is not earned as hard as yours as I shake mine from the tree in the garden.
I don't see (and most of all treat) my dealer as a criminal, 'stealer' and so on, because so far he provided me with excellent service. Guess respect goes both ways. Unlike yours he is not on anti depressants so this may explains....
Oh and the comment regarding reliability. One main misconception is that all buyers of new JLR cars (particular once they hit certain price regions) are plain stupid and got money to burn. Every time I read along those lines I smell jealousy.
So how many cars did you buy from JLR? Got a 1948 or a factory V8?
So feel free to ask yourself who has a bigger impact on JLR's future marketing. Run a poll.
Can't wait to get my hands on a new Defender. m


Last edited by 100inch on 21st Aug 2019 8:42am. Edited 1 time in total
Post #788009 21st Aug 2019 8:28am
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100inch



Member Since: 15 May 2012
Location: Brunswick
Posts: 406

Australia 2010 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 CSW Santorini Black
blackrangie wrote:
100Inch..Noticed you are in the UK, Land Rover and Toyota are on par reliability wise according to the latest JD power survey where both sell multiple 4x4 models & multiple fuelled engines. And apparently even then most of the problems that do occur on Land Rovers these days are infotainment related and not trip ending issues.

blackrangie
I am located in Melbourne.
Thanks for sharing the graph.
Surely JLR had some lemons and the buyers didn't get a fair solution in all cases. I would never put a family member in a car I consider a unreliable or unsafe. Remember the girl who died in VW Golf on the Monash Freeway? Class action against Toyota? The 'successful' MB X-Class? Seems on JLR makes it into the news. Laughing m
Post #788011 21st Aug 2019 8:40am
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Zed



Member Since: 07 Oct 2017
Location: In the woods
Posts: 3000

United Kingdom 2010 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 XS CSW Santorini Black
Quote:

o much to disagree with on this post but lets focus on your point in bold.
Very few people buy new (non Defender) Land Rover products. I read it's less than 10% with the vast majority on PCP hire type agreements which is way above industry standard. They may be the registered keeper but they do not own the car. That also means they aren't allowed to modify it, and let's be honest that is very much part of the appeal of Defender ownership. Who can blame them though? Land Rover make the least reliable cars money can buy. Add the fact parts are ridiculously overpriced plus dealer satisfaction woeful and you can't blame folks for choosing to lease instead of purchasing. Once the cars are out of warranty they are financial time bombs, often virtually being written off just because a part failure means it's not economical to fix.

So before you ask about people supporting the brand why not run a poll on here asking how many spent their hard earned actually buying and maintaining their Series/ Defender instead of hiring for a couple of years like the majority of other Land Rover products. Then come back and tell us about supporting the brand.



100inch wrote:
So much to disagree with on this post but lets focus on your point in bold.
Very few people buy....blah, blah... poll on here asking how many spent their hard earned actually buying and maintaining their Series/ Defender instead of hiring for a couple of years like the majority of other Land Rover products. Then come back and tell us about supporting the brand.

Quote:

To me Land Rover ownership is not about money which I think really makes a positive change to other car brands. But for you Zed, I will try to explain it in a more blunt approach.
My current LR fleet includes 8 cars, ranging from 1949 to 2018. That's including 3 Defender's including a 50th and 3 Series 1. Latest addition to the fleet is a 2018 RRS SDV6 HSE Dynamic which I bought new and has been seen offroad. I don't see myself as any form of VIP, 'special' or similar, because I know people who run fleets of Defenders and trade their RR everytime there is a new colour available. My selection fits into my more important financial life decisions and reflects my enthusiasm with the brand, without going over the top.
You will be more surprised to hear that I actually buy cars! New! Obviously my money is not earned as hard as yours as I shake mine from the tree in the garden.
I don't see (and most of all treat) my dealer as a criminal, 'stealer' and so on, because so far he provided me with excellent service. Guess respect goes both ways. Unlike yours he is not on anti depressants so this may explains....
Oh and the comment regarding reliability. One main misconception is that all buyers of new JLR cars (particular once they hit certain price regions) are plain stupid and got money to burn. Every time I read along those lines I smell jealousy.
So how many cars did you buy from JLR? Got a 1948 or a factory V8?
So feel free to ask yourself who has a bigger impact on JLR's future marketing. Run a poll.
Can't wait to get my hands on a new Defender. m


It would have been quicker to type and less dishonest if you just admitted you were wrong.

Apologies if you did half way down. I didn’t get that far. Not sure why you felt it was OK to make personal comments?

Btw I don't do pssing contests because they just make all concerned look very silly indeed.
Better to walk away and leave the other person standing in front of everyone with their dick in their hand..

Now your assertion was:
Quote:
if it comes to future products there are only two type of people who count. The ones buying it and the ones buying another brand/product due to JLR not matching their needs. And for both cases we are talking recent and regular purchases
Oh and for those having/ buying Jeep or other brands. Don't want to hear about it, don't care.


I’m calling it out as BS. That’s all.
Post #788020 21st Aug 2019 10:15am
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oneten110



Member Since: 02 Jul 2011
Location: Wish I was still in France
Posts: 741

United Kingdom 
100inch wrote:
To me Land Rover ownership is not about money which I think really makes a positive change to other car brands.


Really? If the price of this one part isn't about the money, perhaps you might like to explain what it is about?
https://www.brit-car.co.uk/product.php/126..._1987_2006 It is not a Defender, it is a One_Ten
Post #788482 24th Aug 2019 3:00pm
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gilarion



Member Since: 05 Dec 2013
Location: Wales
Posts: 5084

Wales 2007 Defender 90 Other CSW Trident Green
Laughing they are having a laugh John Craddocks sells the same part for £48.00 exc. VAT

https://www.johncraddockltd.co.uk/land-rov...44022.html For those who like Welsh Mountains and narrow boats have a look at my videos and photos at..

http://www.youtube.com/user/conwy1
Post #788483 24th Aug 2019 3:09pm
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blackrangie



Member Since: 07 Jul 2019
Location: sydney
Posts: 181

Australia 
Zed, you say dont get personal, he was just responding to your comment with his experience, then you get offensive, disrespectful and crude all in the one post, and yes you read all of his post Whistle
Everyones entitles to an opinion, if you dont like it, state your case and move on
Post #788507 24th Aug 2019 9:17pm
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100inch



Member Since: 15 May 2012
Location: Brunswick
Posts: 406

Australia 2010 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 CSW Santorini Black
oneten110.
My comment was based on the diversity LR ownership reflects....hard to put a money figure on peoples experiences, being able to travel for 2 years. Or using their LR's in some of the most stunning environments as part of their daily work. m


Last edited by 100inch on 25th Aug 2019 8:43am. Edited 1 time in total
Post #788514 25th Aug 2019 3:02am
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