↓ Advertise on Defender2 ↓

Home > Td5 > bench seats
Post Reply  Down to end
Page 1 of 1
Print this entire topic · 
turnah



Member Since: 30 Sep 2018
Location: Lancashire
Posts: 40

United Kingdom 2005 Defender 90 Td5 HT Belize Green
bench seats
Apologies if posted before, I tried to search but didn't come up with a definitive answer - so happy to be posted to the correct place if necessary.

I have a need to carry 3 passengers next week and want to install a bench seat along one side, and will only be for very occasional use.

What at the legalities regarding seatbelts? I've seen it's possibly age related (the landy or the people?) but couldn't find more details than that. Honestly, I'd prefer not to have them (I'm fitting!).

I *think* I'll be ok posting off my V5C with an additional number of seats (currently 3) so will pop 4 on.

Already insured for the bench seat with A-Plan as a future modification I requested at renewal.

It's going in a 05' plate TD5 90.

Am I missing anything obvious (apart from the danger of driving without a seatbelt)
Post #781695 16th Jul 2019 1:51pm
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
gilarion



Member Since: 05 Dec 2013
Location: Wales
Posts: 5084

Wales 2007 Defender 90 Other CSW Trident Green
In 1991, it became compulsory in law to wear seat belts in the rear of a car. The only option for you with bench type seating is the lap belt type of seat belt, which to be honest are rubbish really when it comes to a safety restraint. For those who like Welsh Mountains and narrow boats have a look at my videos and photos at..

http://www.youtube.com/user/conwy1
Post #781700 16th Jul 2019 2:19pm
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
blackwolf



Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 16808

United Kingdom 2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Stornoway Grey
To the best of my understanding, on a vehicle of that age there must be an approved seatbelt provided for each and every passenger seat. The only way to do what you want and remain legal is to recreate exactly the configuration that would have left the factory. Unfortunately I can't remember if side-facing rear bench seats were ever fitted to Td5 vehicles, or whether the side-facing individual seats were the only ones type approved in the ECE. If the latter, then that is your only legal option.
Post #781701 16th Jul 2019 2:21pm
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
gilarion



Member Since: 05 Dec 2013
Location: Wales
Posts: 5084

Wales 2007 Defender 90 Other CSW Trident Green
As far as I can recall side bench seats (which were fitted to early Land Rovers) never left the factory with seat belts. After it became law to have them fitted Land Rover from 1992/3 installed individual side-facing seats and they did have belts fitted at the factory for models sold in this country. You can still buy a rear land rover seat belt mounting kit (it's effectively a bar that runs from the bulkhead behind the front seats to the back of the tub along the rear wheel arch, and bolts through to another tubular setup that bolts onto the rear cross member

You should also bear in mind that a child restraint cannot be fitted to side-facing seats. For those who like Welsh Mountains and narrow boats have a look at my videos and photos at..

http://www.youtube.com/user/conwy1
Post #781703 16th Jul 2019 2:29pm
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
michaelwl



Member Since: 19 Nov 2014
Location: Durban
Posts: 65

South Africa 2002 Defender 110 Td5 SW Alpine White
My TD5 110 had inward facing rear seats fitted from the factory. It is a South African assembled 110 year 2002.

The seat belts were as shown here:

https://www.lrworkshop.com/diagrams/land-r...cing_53650

The anchor infrastructure as shown here:

https://www.lrworkshop.com/diagrams/land-r...eats_53628

I have since removed this seats as they don't fit my requirements but left the anchor fittings as tie down points. 2002 110 TD5 White
1981 S3 R6 Matt Green - Now used as game viewer
2013 Discovery 4 XS
Post #781716 16th Jul 2019 4:12pm
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
turnah



Member Since: 30 Sep 2018
Location: Lancashire
Posts: 40

United Kingdom 2005 Defender 90 Td5 HT Belize Green
Thanks for all the replies, it looks like a bit more of an expensive job that I thought with all the kit needed (thinking a bench would be ~£50). I've given the bad news to the campers, but will use this to pop a couple of seats in at some point.

Great resource this! Cheers! Bow down
Post #781831 17th Jul 2019 7:03am
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
donmacn



Member Since: 06 Nov 2017
Location: Nth Scotland
Posts: 1829

gilarion wrote:
As far as I can recall side bench seats (which were fitted to early Land Rovers) never left the factory with seat belts. After it became law to have them fitted Land Rover from 1992/3 installed individual side-facing seats and they did have belts fitted at the factory for models sold in this country. You can still buy a rear land rover seat belt mounting kit (it's effectively a bar that runs from the bulkhead behind the front seats to the back of the tub along the rear wheel arch, and bolts through to another tubular setup that bolts onto the rear cross member


I'm not really taking issue with this, just commenting. My car - a 1994 "low spec" 110 SW came to me with inward facing bench seats, but no bar or seatbelts. I can't imagine that the previous owner (an airport operator) would have left the seats in, but removed the seatbelt bar, so I'm assuming it left the factory without. Maybe something to do with the 'low line' models, or just LR variance?

(these seats have been out of my car for donkey's years) Donald

1994 Defender 300Tdi 110 SW - owned since 2002 - 230k miles and going strong
(The 'rolling restoration' or tinkering thread: http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic58538.html )
2000 Range Rover P38 4.0L V8

in the past..
RR classic - fitted with 200Tdi
1984 RR classic - V8 with ZF auto box
1993 Discovery 300Tdi

not to mention the minis and the Type 2 VW camper...
Post #781835 17th Jul 2019 7:24am
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
Landish



Member Since: 19 Jun 2018
Location: UK
Posts: 74

United Kingdom 2005 Defender 90 Td5 SW Belize Green
My 2005 Defender brochure shows that benches were standard on the 'base' 90 SW with individual seats optional. Individual seats were standard on the County SW.


Click image to enlarge



My TD5 90 is a hard top converted to a 'fake' station wagon with inward facing bench seats and two seat belts each side. It passes its MOT with no problem. The seats are ok for short distances but I wouldn't recommend them for a long journey - for comfort as well as safety. 2005 Defender 90 TD5
Post #781878 17th Jul 2019 1:41pm
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
turnah



Member Since: 30 Sep 2018
Location: Lancashire
Posts: 40

United Kingdom 2005 Defender 90 Td5 HT Belize Green
Hello, oldish thread but after a couple of attempts I've had an official response from the department of transport. I'll leave it here in case it's of help for anyone else using the search function.

Quote:
Seat Belt Rules
Thank you for your email of 3 June to the Department for Transport regarding seatbelt
rules. Your correspondence has been passed to us in International Vehicle Standards
(IVS) as we have responsibility for vehicle safety.

Our advice is that passengers are safest in a forward or rearward facing seat equipped
with a lap belt or, preferably, a three-point belt.

Although side facing seats, with or without seatbelts, are not illegal, we would not advise
that they are used. This is because seatbelts are not designed to be used with such seats.
In the event of an accident, seatbelts on these side facing seats may help to prevent the
wearer being thrown around the vehicle or from being ejected, but in a frontal crash they
can increase injury risk by subjecting vulnerable parts of the body to higher loads than
seatbelts used on forward facing seats. You should also bear in mind that child restraints
cannot be fitted to side facing seats. In order to fit the required child restraints, you would
need to have forward or rearward facing seats with full three-point seatbelts.

Please note that this letter contains the views of the Department for Transport and that
insofar as this letter provides an interpretation of the law, it is only a court of law that is
able to give a legally definitive interpretation.


Then again not entirely sure it answers things as my question was, " I've installed side facing single seats in my 2005 defender 90; are they legal". I'm now insured for 3 seats and have the email in case I'm pulled up so think I'm covered if I do plan to shove someone in the back.
Post #839754 25th Jun 2020 8:50pm
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
New2This



Member Since: 10 Aug 2021
Location: England
Posts: 1

United Kingdom 2005 Defender 90 2.5 TD HT Aintree Green
Rear lap belt anchorage

Click image to enlarge

Hi, new to the Defender game. Trying to fit bench seats and lap belts, but the anchoring points are a mystery. My Hardtop is a blank canvas - no seats or belts previously fitted in the rear. Googling, and enquiries to "specialists" have thrown up all manner of options. Does anyone have these fitted already, with photos they can show me? Thank you

Click image to enlarge
Post #916316 10th Aug 2021 10:26am
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
Van Diesel



Member Since: 12 Oct 2013
Location: Suffolk
Posts: 173

United Kingdom 1986 Defender 90 V8 Petrol ST Auto Pennine Grey
If I fit rear inward facing bench seats to my 90, with no seat belts on a 1986 90, when it comes to MOT time, if I strapped the seat base up with the fitted retaining strap, would that mean it would pass the MOT.
I've no intention of ever using them but like the appearance.
Post #991060 1st May 2023 7:11pm
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
blackwolf



Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 16808

United Kingdom 2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Stornoway Grey
^^ Very doubtful, I would think, you would have to render seat unserviceable as a seat (it would have to cease to be a seat) in order to pass. The easiest way would be to unbolt it, however why fit a seat which you cannot use? If it is there, one day someone will sit in it and then, potentially, you have a major risk.
Post #991065 1st May 2023 7:29pm
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Post Reply
Post Reply  Back to top
Page 1 of 1
All times are GMT

Jump to  
Previous Topic | Next Topic >
Posting Rules
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum



Site Copyright © 2006-2024 Futuranet Ltd & Martin Lewis
DEFENDER2.NET RSS Feed - All Forums