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Jeebs



Member Since: 23 Oct 2015
Location: West Yorks
Posts: 37

United Kingdom 1995 Defender 90 300 Tdi HT Barolo Black
Braking system upgrade/overhaul

Slowing making progress with my 300tdi, and seemingly saved it from an engine rebuild/the scrap heap the other day by doing the timing belt, which was ready to go at any point.

While it was up on the ramps I had a good look at the braking system, which is far from perfect.

It seems that the rear callipers are a bit seized, and the front are excessively corroded and in need of replacement.

Ideally I would like to fit updated brakes to the front and rear but know that AP systems are quite costly.

I’m looking at swapping to a vented set up on the front and new callipers on the rear.

Are there any potential issues with this?

I don’t have the VIN handy, but it’s a 1995 90.

Are there any decent kits out there to achieve what I want, or is it a case of just ordering the bits and fitting them?

Post #781171 11th Jul 2019 8:41pm
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bankz5152



Member Since: 02 Feb 2017
Location: South London/North Kent
Posts: 1349

2004 Defender 110 Td5 DCPU Epsom Green

Afaik its a case of buying the bits you need and fitting, but I may be wrong. If it was me iddo the following

Use Td5 110 front calipers (Paddocks are the cheapest) + vented discs (Mintex are decent). Plus some quality pads Brembo or Ferrodo (eurocarparts on a weekend deal)

Rears leave as solid discs, may as well replace with standard parts.

Be worth looking at your Master & Slave too. Bleed the whole system thru with DOT5.1 should stop rather well! Instagram @defender_ventures

Post #781173 11th Jul 2019 8:53pm
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Procta



Member Since: 04 Dec 2016
Location: Sunderland
Posts: 2747

United Kingdom 

Yeah TD5 on the front is a cracking upgrade, maybe best to see what the rears are like too, i ended up replacing those too, with replacement units. So the full works was new, the only thing is, i wouldn't really waste your money on braided hoses, i don't really think they are as good as some people say they are. Defender TD5 90 ---/--- Peugeot 306 HDI hatch back

Post #781176 11th Jul 2019 9:22pm
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Jeebs



Member Since: 23 Oct 2015
Location: West Yorks
Posts: 37

United Kingdom 1995 Defender 90 300 Tdi HT Barolo Black

Rears most definitely need done.

Will the TD5 callipers just be a bolt on part, not a mammoth task? I intend on replacing mud shields at the same time as these have also seen better days.

I have done disks and pads previously on a puma, which didn’t need “end float” set.

That’s the only part that is really of any concern to me, rebuilding the hub and setting endfloat.

Post #781181 11th Jul 2019 9:37pm
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bankz5152



Member Since: 02 Feb 2017
Location: South London/North Kent
Posts: 1349

2004 Defender 110 Td5 DCPU Epsom Green

Its not hard to do. All done by feel, just adjust till theres no wobble and the wheel spins free

I would fit braided lines +2s ideally just for the peace of mind. Hardly a pricey upgrade either! Instagram @defender_ventures

Post #781186 11th Jul 2019 9:52pm
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Procta



Member Since: 04 Dec 2016
Location: Sunderland
Posts: 2747

United Kingdom 

Jeebs wrote:
Rears most definitely need done.

Will the TD5 callipers just be a bolt on part, not a mammoth task? I intend on replacing mud shields at the same time as these have also seen better days.

I have done disks and pads previously on a puma, which didn’t need “end float” set.

That’s the only part that is really of any concern to me, rebuilding the hub and setting endfloat.


Yeah just bolt on, you can get a kit for about 150 quid or so on ebay Thumbs Up Defender TD5 90 ---/--- Peugeot 306 HDI hatch back

Post #781201 12th Jul 2019 6:05am
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Mo Murphy



Member Since: 01 Jun 2008
Location: Letchworth Garden City, Herts
Posts: 1067

United Kingdom 1984 Defender 90 200 Tdi HT Orkney Grey

Vented discs will not help you stop any quicker, they reduce brake fade by allowing cooling of the disc in severe circumstances like towing heavy loads or mountain descents.

Disc brakes do not have a slave cylinder Mr. Bankz.

There is not much advantage in using DOT 5.1 fluid over DOT 4, certainly not in a Tdi.

To answer the OP, replace brake components with standard good quality replacements, ie Lockheed including the rubber hoses. Your brakes will be back to where they should be.

HTH
Mo The Land Rover 90 - Many are called, few are chosen.

Post #781204 12th Jul 2019 6:49am
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bankz5152



Member Since: 02 Feb 2017
Location: South London/North Kent
Posts: 1349

2004 Defender 110 Td5 DCPU Epsom Green

Ahhh sorry was thinking clutch! Been on my mind recently....

As for fluid why not use the best? Instagram @defender_ventures

Post #781208 12th Jul 2019 7:28am
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Mo Murphy



Member Since: 01 Jun 2008
Location: Letchworth Garden City, Herts
Posts: 1067

United Kingdom 1984 Defender 90 200 Tdi HT Orkney Grey

Why is it the best ? Because it has a higher boiling point ? Are you likely to boil the brake fluid ?
It's up to the OP of course, but I'm inclined to use the appropriate fluid for the job rather than one that has a higher number so it must be better.
Perhaps you're thinking of DOT 5 fluid which is silicone based. It's great because it doesn't absorb water like standard brake fluid but alas rots all the rubber seals.
Hope that offers some clarification
Mo The Land Rover 90 - Many are called, few are chosen.

Post #781221 12th Jul 2019 9:33am
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geobloke



Member Since: 06 Nov 2012
Location: North Wales, UK
Posts: 1515

United Kingdom 

Procta wrote:
i wouldn't really waste your money on braided hoses, i don't really think they are as good as some people say they are.


The only thing I will say here is if your brake pipes are as old as the vehicle, replacing them with braided will make a good difference as the rubber ones have probably lost some capability. I remember swapping my old 200tdi pipes to braided and it was like night and day, much more responsive to pedal pressure. But as said if your pipes are fairly new there probably wont be much difference.

The other things to check are in good fettle are the vacuum pumps, vacuum pipes, connections and servos. These all perish with age. My biggest leak on the 200tdi was from the rubber grommet that the one way valve sits in on the servo. Used to Hisssssssssssssssssss....

Less trouble are the biasing valves, but check it for weeping of excessive corrosion.

Calipers, go for stainless steel right from the offset if you can afford it, save you a lot of effort repeating the process in the future.

One thing I wish I had done was paint my calipers before fitting as they look awful now, not for looks sake but as an anti corrosion thing.

The Britpart performance discs are actually really good and did a grand job stopping my 110 for 5 years or so. Now have EBC discs on the front and to be honest I cannot tell the difference.

Wouldn't touch Mintrex pads with a barge pole after the last set I had, screeched like a banshee. Have been EBC pads ever since and haven't looked back.

The job of swapping over the discs is not a particularly difficult one just a bit dirty perhaps. Make sure you fit new hub nuts and locking washers and it would be worth having a set of bearings on stand by just in case you need to replace a set or two. If your old bearings are OK then clean them with brake cleaner and use good clean grease to pack the bearings. Also have some fine wet and dry on stand by to remove and ridges on teh stub axles.

This is a really enjoyable DIY job to do, just take your time and have plenty of coffee and hob-nobs to hand Smile

Post #781249 12th Jul 2019 3:57pm
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geobloke



Member Since: 06 Nov 2012
Location: North Wales, UK
Posts: 1515

United Kingdom 

Mo Murphy wrote:
Why is it the best ? Because it has a higher boiling point ? Are you likely to boil the brake fluid ?
It's up to the OP of course, but I'm inclined to use the appropriate fluid for the job rather than one that has a higher number so it must be better.
Perhaps you're thinking of DOT 5 fluid which is silicone based. It's great because it doesn't absorb water like standard brake fluid but alas rots all the rubber seals.
Hope that offers some clarification
Mo


Huh funny you should mention boiling brake fluid... I did a month or so ago coming down a massively steep hill near Conwy. The brake pedal was remarkably spongy, had to stand with both feet on the pedal to slow down before the T-Junction at the bottom of the road. First time I have ever had this happen. The wife was moderately alarmed when I told her the brakes weren't working very well... Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes

I suspect though the system just needs a damn good bleed. Whistle

Post #781254 12th Jul 2019 4:07pm
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Jeebs



Member Since: 23 Oct 2015
Location: West Yorks
Posts: 37

United Kingdom 1995 Defender 90 300 Tdi HT Barolo Black

The callipers are gopping and quite corroded, I am looking an AP Lockheed ones as replacements. Not LR prices, but still not cheap.

The pipes are definitely not new, if I’m doing it all, would it make sense to use braided hoses?

In terms of disks and pads, I’ve used mintex in the past and found them to be alright. Its a defender, so I’m not expecting it to stop like my M140i 😄

I was intending on having hub kits for each, just so everything is new and fresh, when they go back together. As well as new bearings for longevity.

Could you explain what the sandpaper is for?

Post #781294 12th Jul 2019 10:01pm
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domm786



Member Since: 14 May 2016
Location: Scotland
Posts: 52

Scotland 1994 Defender 90 300 Tdi CSW Keswick Green

i got full new set of discs and caliper recently. all bearmach stuff. fitted the front discs couple of days ago when i was doing my swivels.

something that really annoyed me was the silly little rigid hose after the flexihose to the caliper. my lines are all still connected but my plan is to put a braided hose directly to the caliper and bypassing the little rigid hose. With a banjo union on the caliper and a sensible length hose i see no issue with it as long as care is taken to route it away from bump stop, spring and inside wheel.

i also had what i thought was a genius original idea on the rear calipers - to remove the rigid pipes from the rear T-piece and put braided hoses to the calipers (again with a branjo union at the end). that way when it comes to doing a rear wheel bearing or halfshaft etc, you dont have to disconnect or risk kinking the rigid line. I later found out after a search i am not a genius and several other people have already done this clever modification. I spoke to Dave at Llama 4x4 who said he made several of these custom braided lines for people and he does so at very reasonable prices. Im almost tempted to remove every brake line on the car and change them all out with braided lines.



Click image to enlarge

Post #781295 12th Jul 2019 10:07pm
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Mo Murphy



Member Since: 01 Jun 2008
Location: Letchworth Garden City, Herts
Posts: 1067

United Kingdom 1984 Defender 90 200 Tdi HT Orkney Grey

This thread running on LR4X4 may be of use to some of the posters here, with regard to stainless braided brake lines.

https://forums.lr4x4.com/topic/105642-brak.../#comments

Mo The Land Rover 90 - Many are called, few are chosen.

Post #781308 13th Jul 2019 7:40am
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Jeebs



Member Since: 23 Oct 2015
Location: West Yorks
Posts: 37

United Kingdom 1995 Defender 90 300 Tdi HT Barolo Black

I’m quite lucky as I have a friend who is a mechanic and has kindly allowed me to use his workshop to work on the 90.

Thankfully he will be around to help should things go wrong and has a courtesy car I had use if I really balls it up!!

If anyone could assist with part numbers for the TD5 vented/upgraded callipers I would greatly appreciate it.

I am loathed to ask my local LR parts counter as they sold me a seal for £46 that turned out to be completely the wrong thing and refused to take it back! 🙄

Post #781626 15th Jul 2019 9:49pm
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