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hank



Member Since: 12 Sep 2016
Location: South Wales/Middle East
Posts: 628

Wales 2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Stornoway Grey
Intercoolers. Any difference between brands in reality?

There is plenty of choice when it comes to intercooler upgrades and the price range is eyewatering

I've scoured the forum for opinion but understandably it's usually owners recommending the one they bought...

Is there any real world difference between them or are they all much of a muchness? Is there any notable difference that makes any one better than another? I read in one thread that the Alive one is "massive", the BAS has undergone flow testing/deveopment etc. Any input appreciated in helping me make a decision!

Britpart £325
Serck £375
Terrafrima Fast Road £440
Allard £465
Allisport £480
Terrafirma Off Road £510
BAS £540
Twisted £545
Chipteck £600
IRB £650
Bowler £1200
Entreq? > 110 DCPU Progress
> Instagram @simonlanemind


Last edited by hank on 12th Feb 2019 1:13pm. Edited 2 times in total

Post #758135 12th Feb 2019 12:33pm
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donmacn



Member Since: 06 Nov 2017
Location: Nth Scotland
Posts: 531

Hi Hank,

Afraid I won't be able to help too much - I guess what would be ideal would be someone with comparative experience with more than one of these. I'm not that guy unfortunately.

As you've said, most folk will just say "I got mine and it's been great/OK/not worth it/broke". I've got an Allard kit to fit - but I'm just accumulating shiny stuff to ease cash flow until the weather gets warmer, so it's not gone on yet. I can tell you it looks nice and professional - but that's as far as it goes I'm afraid.

Probably like you, I looked first into the question of needed or not needed. I found a few threads which pointed to colder engine temps, and "increased fuel efficiency" - though on that last point I'm probably more in agreement with those that say "if you have the power you'll use it" - despite best intentions.

In the end, I'd read various things about various brands, and just went for one that seemed a good fit for me. Donald

1994 Defender 300Tdi 110 SW - owned since 2002 - 220k miles and going strong

The 'rolling restoration' or tinkering thread: http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic58538.html

in the past..
RR classic - fitted with 200Tdi
1984 RR classic - V8 with ZF auto box
1993 Discovery 300Tdi

not to mention the minis and the Type 2 VW camper...

Post #758137 12th Feb 2019 12:49pm
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GREENI



Member Since: 22 Aug 2010
Location: staffs
Posts: 8742

United Kingdom 

Unless you have a re-map, an intercooler on it's own, in my opinion is throwing money away.

I had a remap on all my td5's and my puma, kept the standard cooler, no issues. instagram @v8_scumbag

Post #758139 12th Feb 2019 12:56pm
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Zed



Member Since: 07 Oct 2017
Location: In the woods
Posts: 1141

United Kingdom 2010 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 XS CSW Santorini Black

IRB use PWR intercoolers. They cost about £650
Bowler use a bespoke race/desert spec version from PWR which will set you back £1200.

Actual benefits will depend on how you use your motor. Best to get in touch with all the various suppliers to find out which, if any, are best for you.

Post #758140 12th Feb 2019 12:57pm
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hank



Member Since: 12 Sep 2016
Location: South Wales/Middle East
Posts: 628

Wales 2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Stornoway Grey

Thanks for responses so far.

Greeni - I have BAS remap but this is what I'm wondering. Many people are reporting good performance on the standard intercooler, though some report failure of he standard intercooler.

Zed - more eye watering than I first thought! > 110 DCPU Progress
> Instagram @simonlanemind


Last edited by hank on 12th Feb 2019 1:30pm. Edited 2 times in total

Post #758143 12th Feb 2019 1:11pm
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windy81



Member Since: 14 Mar 2018
Location: North Wales
Posts: 75

Wales 1993 Defender 90 200 Tdi HT Montpellier Red

When i bought my VGT Turbo they specify the guarantee is subject to having an uprated intercooler.
The IC reduces the thermal stress on the turbo i'd guess is what that means

Post #758146 12th Feb 2019 1:17pm
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tookaphotoof



Member Since: 18 Mar 2013
Location: dordrecht
Posts: 1089

Netherlands 2013 Defender 130 Puma 2.2 HCPU Santorini Black

GREENI wrote:
Unless you have a re-map, an intercooler on it's own, in my opinion is throwing money away.

I had a remap on all my td5's and my puma, kept the standard cooler, no issues.


Having the oem intercoolers and hoses split on both my Defenders, I’d say I disagree...
i fitted a the intercooler and silicon hoses from BAS. Not saying I’ll never run into trouble again, but they give me a lot more confidence. That alone is worth some money for me.

Post #758147 12th Feb 2019 1:17pm
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LandRoverAnorak



Member Since: 17 Jul 2011
Location: Surrey
Posts: 6394

United Kingdom 2013 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 USW Orkney Grey

windy81 wrote:
When i bought my VGT Turbo they specify the guarantee is subject to having an uprated intercooler.
The IC reduces the thermal stress on the turbo i'd guess is what that means

The intercooler is after the turbo and it's function is to loose some of the heat that turbocharging produces. That may reduce thermal stress on the engine but not on the turbo. Darren

2013 Defender 110 USW XS
2013 Discovery 4 XS

"You came in that thing? You're braver than I thought!" - Princess Leia

MY 110 USW BUILD THREAD - MY 200tdi 90 BUILD THREAD

Instagram: @landroveranorak

Post #758153 12th Feb 2019 1:29pm
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donmacn



Member Since: 06 Nov 2017
Location: Nth Scotland
Posts: 531

^^^^^^^

Wouldn't cooler intake air (from a larger intercooler) reduce overall combustion temps; so stress on the engine, and also lower temperature/cooler exhaust gasses entering the turbo?

It seems 'logical' to me - but maybe not correct, or too marginal to make much difference? Donald

1994 Defender 300Tdi 110 SW - owned since 2002 - 220k miles and going strong

The 'rolling restoration' or tinkering thread: http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic58538.html

in the past..
RR classic - fitted with 200Tdi
1984 RR classic - V8 with ZF auto box
1993 Discovery 300Tdi

not to mention the minis and the Type 2 VW camper...

Post #758156 12th Feb 2019 1:32pm
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Zed



Member Since: 07 Oct 2017
Location: In the woods
Posts: 1141

United Kingdom 2010 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 XS CSW Santorini Black

Quote:
Zed - more eye watering than I first thought!


Yep, a bonkers price tag but I guess if you are racing across the desert and need the best then deep pockets are essential.

Quote:
ve scoured the forum for opinion but understandably it's usually owners recommending the one they bought...

This is definitely the case with most things on here. Also some of the 'performance ' companies talk a whole heap of twaddle which only muddies the waters further but few conversations will tell you a lot about both supplier their product. Especially if you ask for actual data. That and reading between the lines can save an awful lot of cash.

As you have a BAS map Pete would be my first call. Even though he sells his own intercooler he is refreshingly honest about it's real world benefits.

Post #758157 12th Feb 2019 1:34pm
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LandRoverAnorak



Member Since: 17 Jul 2011
Location: Surrey
Posts: 6394

United Kingdom 2013 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 USW Orkney Grey

As I said, the intercooler is positioned after or downstream of the turbo, so it has no effect on the temperature of the air entering the turbo.

edit: sorry, I missed the words 'exhaust gasses' in that comment. What you say may well be true but is only incidental to the main purpose of the IC. Darren

2013 Defender 110 USW XS
2013 Discovery 4 XS

"You came in that thing? You're braver than I thought!" - Princess Leia

MY 110 USW BUILD THREAD - MY 200tdi 90 BUILD THREAD

Instagram: @landroveranorak

Post #758158 12th Feb 2019 1:36pm
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donmacn



Member Since: 06 Nov 2017
Location: Nth Scotland
Posts: 531

^^^ thanks Darren - yes, I understand that on the intake side, but on the 'drive' side, where the exhaust gasses are driving the turbo, would it make no difference there?

And if not, then why do BAS require/suggest a larger intercooler to go with their VNT? If everything else is 'downstream' of the turbo, then why would it impact on the turbo longevity?

I could see it being a 'performance' argument: "I fitted one of your VNT Turbos and it made no difference, I want my money back" - sort of thing; but I'd have thought from the way it's worded that there was more to it than that?

Edit - hadn't seen your edit! Donald

1994 Defender 300Tdi 110 SW - owned since 2002 - 220k miles and going strong

The 'rolling restoration' or tinkering thread: http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic58538.html

in the past..
RR classic - fitted with 200Tdi
1984 RR classic - V8 with ZF auto box
1993 Discovery 300Tdi

not to mention the minis and the Type 2 VW camper...

Post #758159 12th Feb 2019 1:39pm
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LandRoverAnorak



Member Since: 17 Jul 2011
Location: Surrey
Posts: 6394

United Kingdom 2013 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 USW Orkney Grey

I think the recommendation for a larger IC to go with a VNT turbo is because the latter produces more heat, which must then be lost again to get the benefit from it. Darren

2013 Defender 110 USW XS
2013 Discovery 4 XS

"You came in that thing? You're braver than I thought!" - Princess Leia

MY 110 USW BUILD THREAD - MY 200tdi 90 BUILD THREAD

Instagram: @landroveranorak

Post #758166 12th Feb 2019 2:28pm
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windy81



Member Since: 14 Mar 2018
Location: North Wales
Posts: 75

Wales 1993 Defender 90 200 Tdi HT Montpellier Red

Quote:
Reduced intake temperatures bring further benefits too - cooler air at the intake results in lowered Exhaust Gas Temperature (EGT). EGT is a major limiting factor of tuning diesel engines, and high EGT causes huge stress on components such as exhaust valves, pistons and turbochargers. Even if no extra power could be made, reduced EGT is reason enough to want to reduce intake temperatures.



https://www.darksidedevelopments.co.uk/Blog/Intercooling/

Post #758173 12th Feb 2019 2:45pm
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ericvv



Member Since: 02 Jun 2011
Location: Near the Jet d'Eau
Posts: 5391

Switzerland 2009 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 SVX Station Wagon Santorini Black

One of the big differences which differentiate various intercoolers quality is the type of welding. Suggest to take a look at the Alive Ultimate intercooler, essentially identical to the Entreq intercooler.
Eric You never actually own a Defender. You merely look after it for the next generation.
http://youtu.be/yVRlSsJwD0o
https://youtu.be/vmPr3oTHndg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_GtzTT9Pdl0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABqKPz28e6A
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLZ49Jce_n0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XvAsz_ilQYU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8tMHiX9lSw
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dxwjPuHIV7I
https://vimeo.com/201482507
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSixqL0iyHw

Post #758182 12th Feb 2019 3:34pm
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