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Home > Maintenance & Modifications > Headlights (again) - Not LED but how about HID Xenon?
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geobloke



Member Since: 06 Nov 2012
Location: North Wales, UK
Posts: 1470

United Kingdom 

Matt_H wrote:
Ok so I've managed to get to it.

Have to say I'm really not that happy with the Landreiziger loom. I see that the quality looks good, but the lengths are all wrong.

There is barely enough length in the cross-car cable to be able to tuck it tidily across the top of the rad, and in doing so it means that the relays end up floating loose behind the airbox. This in turn gives you barely enough to get to the alternator.

I assume it was desgined for a TD5 - needs tweaking to be a good tidy fit in a Puma 2.4 : (


How bloody irritating! Evil or Very Mad

Have to confess to ripping out the cheaper version of this loom as it did a fab job of melting last winter. When working and combined with the crystals and nightbreakers it was fantastic.

Did anyone else find they were going through bulbs quicker - every 12 months or so.

Post #734025 10th Oct 2018 1:10pm
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leeds
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Member Since: 28 Dec 2009
Location: West Yorkshire
Posts: 8239

United Kingdom 

With the extra/ultra/125% light bulbs in general they will fail earlier.

You need to look at the B3 and Tc hourly rating of the bulbs.


B3 is the time that 3% of the bulbs will have failed, i.e. basically 97% bulbs should still be working.

Tc is the time that 67% of bulbs will have failed.


The B3 and Tc of ultra bright bulbs is roughly half the time of standard bulbs.

If you want longevity of bulb life go for standard bulb, increased light output but shorter life go for extra bright bulb.

There are several factors effecting bulb life, from input voltage to physical shocks from potholes etc. If you travel on rough roads at night time with extra bright bulbs, carry spare ones and get used to idea of changing them frequently.



Brendan http://www.4x4overlander.com
Brendan's phone numbers 07929 604668/01422 243966 up to about 9pm
email address brendan@4x4overlander.com

Post #734028 10th Oct 2018 1:21pm
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geobloke



Member Since: 06 Nov 2012
Location: North Wales, UK
Posts: 1470

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Brendan once again thank you for the schooling Thumbs Up Thumbs Up

Post #734031 10th Oct 2018 1:38pm
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leeds
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Member Since: 28 Dec 2009
Location: West Yorkshire
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Just to put a bit more flesh on my above post.

Finding the B3 and Tc figures sometimes requires a little bit of digging.

Osram Night Breaker Laser . B3 . 150 hours, Tc . 300 hours



Osram Night Breaker Silver . B3 400hr . Tc 650 hours .


Yes there is a lot of other data associated with headlight bulbs but those figures are just to show the differences in life span of bulbs from the same manufacturer and their same range. Have not checked all the other data.

So when looking at different bulbs please look more closely not just at the light output figure but at the anticipated lifespan.


Brendan http://www.4x4overlander.com
Brendan's phone numbers 07929 604668/01422 243966 up to about 9pm
email address brendan@4x4overlander.com

Post #734065 10th Oct 2018 5:22pm
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Matt_H



Member Since: 19 Sep 2018
Location: Cornwall
Posts: 18

United Kingdom 2008 Defender 90 Puma 2.4 XS CSW Santorini Black

geobloke wrote:
Matt_H wrote:
Ok so I've managed to get to it.

Have to say I'm really not that happy with the Landreiziger loom. I see that the quality looks good, but the lengths are all wrong.

There is barely enough length in the cross-car cable to be able to tuck it tidily across the top of the rad, and in doing so it means that the relays end up floating loose behind the airbox. This in turn gives you barely enough to get to the alternator.

I assume it was desgined for a TD5 - needs tweaking to be a good tidy fit in a Puma 2.4 : (


How bloody irritating! Evil or Very Mad

Have to confess to ripping out the cheaper version of this loom as it did a fab job of melting last winter. When working and combined with the crystals and nightbreakers it was fantastic.



Yes it was rather!

Next time round (if there is one) i'll make my own up - some of the connectors inside the H4 blocks were bent too so I had to have a poke about with them to be able to get the bulbs in. For the fifty quid it cost to buy and get posted, I can do something myself with the right length cables to be able to run it so it looks a bit more "factory fit", and also have the relay block somewhere that its secure & I can see it and get to it. Sadly my relay block is sat on its side in between the airbox and its inner wing mount and I got a cable-tie near it (tie-in the alternator feed run to the bonnet release cable) to stop it from moving around - not ideal but the best I could do.

Still, all done now. Thumbs Up

Post #734096 10th Oct 2018 7:32pm
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Matt_H



Member Since: 19 Sep 2018
Location: Cornwall
Posts: 18

United Kingdom 2008 Defender 90 Puma 2.4 XS CSW Santorini Black

leeds wrote:
Just to put a bit more flesh on my above post.

Finding the B3 and Tc figures sometimes requires a little bit of digging.

Osram Night Breaker Laser . B3 . 150 hours, Tc . 300 hours



Osram Night Breaker Silver . B3 400hr . Tc 650 hours .


Yes there is a lot of other data associated with headlight bulbs but those figures are just to show the differences in life span of bulbs from the same manufacturer and their same range. Have not checked all the other data.

So when looking at different bulbs please look more closely not just at the light output figure but at the anticipated lifespan.


Brendan


Interesting! Thanks Smile

I got Night Breaker "unlimited" (whatever that means!?) Looks like I could have gone brighter Question

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00EPL...&psc=1

...might grab some spares Very Happy

Post #734097 10th Oct 2018 7:36pm
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BuckBlu110



Member Since: 19 Apr 2014
Location: in the pub
Posts: 478

United Kingdom 1994 Defender 110 300 Tdi CSW Buckingham Blue

Now here’s a query for you Brendan, picked my dcpu up from mot this afternoon, it is fitted with genuine trucklite led head lights, and the tester said that leds are bundled in with hids and xenons in that they should have washers and the vehicle have self levelling suspension to make them legal, so by rights he should fail the motor because it isn’t fitted with either. He didn’t fail it thankfully because he said we’re that they were perfectly aligned and he didn’t think they were going to cause any issues.
Is this right? Have whoever’s in charge of mot rules snuck this in with the revisions made earlier this year?

Post #734216 11th Oct 2018 2:20pm
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blackwolf



Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 8915

United Kingdom 2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Stornoway Grey

According to greyhead.co.uk :-

greyhead.co.uk wrote:
ECE Regulations 48 and 98 are the ones which apply to HID headlights, and 48 is the one which deals specifically with how HID headlights must be fitted to be legal.

Headlight washers and automatic levelling
Part 6.2.9. "Other requirements" says: "Dipped-beam headlamps with a light source or LED module(s) producing the principal dipped beam and having a total objective luminous flux which exceeds 2,000 lumen shall only be installed in conjunction with the installation of headlamp cleaning device(s) according to Regulation No. 45.


So it seems that under European (ECE) law you cannont fit LED lights unless you also fit levelling and washing systems. Whether this is a UK MOT test failure is a different matter.

It is also questionable whether by fitting such units whether approved or not you are invalidating the Whole Vehicle Type Approval for the vehicle. I suspect that you are.

Massively complex. Good bye, good old days of simplicity! Big Cry

Post #734218 11th Oct 2018 2:30pm
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SJM2018



Member Since: 06 Jul 2018
Location: Bristol
Posts: 17

United Kingdom 2011 Defender 90 Puma 2.4 XS CSW Aintree Green

https://gear.landrover.com/gb/en/defender/...tiary-tabs

Land Rover sell a Xenon bulb upgrade kit for 07MY onwards. Has anyone used / heard about this?

Post #734228 11th Oct 2018 3:28pm
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Martin
Site Admin


Member Since: 02 Apr 2007
Location: Hook Norton
Posts: 4678

United Kingdom 2015 Defender 90 Puma 2.2 XS CSW Montalcino Red

Simply a pair of Ring Xenonmax H4 bulbs, available for £16ish a pair elsewhere.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Ring-XenonMax-Hea...B002Z7R4HS
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Ring-Xenon-Max-...1975664706  1988 90 Td5 NAS soft top Cool
2015 D90 XS SW Mr. Green
2006 D110 CSW (Dad's)

Post #734231 11th Oct 2018 3:41pm
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Bluest



Member Since: 23 Apr 2016
Location: Lancashire
Posts: 1344

United Kingdom 2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 XS CSW Java Black

Those are just uprated H4 bulbs with Xenon gas. Like Phillips White vision or similar road legal upgrades. 2007 110 TDCi Station Wagon XS

Post #734232 11th Oct 2018 3:42pm
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Bluest



Member Since: 23 Apr 2016
Location: Lancashire
Posts: 1344

United Kingdom 2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 XS CSW Java Black

blackwolf wrote:
According to greyhead.co.uk :-

greyhead.co.uk wrote:
ECE Regulations 48 and 98 are the ones which apply to HID headlights, and 48 is the one which deals specifically with how HID headlights must be fitted to be legal.

Headlight washers and automatic levelling
Part 6.2.9. "Other requirements" says: "Dipped-beam headlamps with a light source or LED module(s) producing the principal dipped beam and having a total objective luminous flux which exceeds 2,000 lumen shall only be installed in conjunction with the installation of headlamp cleaning device(s) according to Regulation No. 45.


So it seems that under European (ECE) law you cannont fit LED lights unless you also fit levelling and washing systems. Whether this is a UK MOT test failure is a different matter.

It is also questionable whether by fitting such units whether approved or not you are invalidating the Whole Vehicle Type Approval for the vehicle. I suspect that you are.

Massively complex. Good bye, good old days of simplicity! Big Cry


Maybe the approved aftermarket ones don't exceed 2000 lumens??? No idea, just a guess, as that would avoid the need for headlamp cleaning. 2007 110 TDCi Station Wagon XS

Post #734233 11th Oct 2018 3:44pm
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Matt_H



Member Since: 19 Sep 2018
Location: Cornwall
Posts: 18

United Kingdom 2008 Defender 90 Puma 2.4 XS CSW Santorini Black

blackwolf wrote:
According to greyhead.co.uk :-

greyhead.co.uk wrote:
ECE Regulations 48 and 98 are the ones which apply to HID headlights, and 48 is the one which deals specifically with how HID headlights must be fitted to be legal.

Headlight washers and automatic levelling
Part 6.2.9. "Other requirements" says: "Dipped-beam headlamps with a light source or LED module(s) producing the principal dipped beam and having a total objective luminous flux which exceeds 2,000 lumen shall only be installed in conjunction with the installation of headlamp cleaning device(s) according to Regulation No. 45.


So it seems that under European (ECE) law you cannont fit LED lights unless you also fit levelling and washing systems. Whether this is a UK MOT test failure is a different matter.

It is also questionable whether by fitting such units whether approved or not you are invalidating the Whole Vehicle Type Approval for the vehicle. I suspect that you are.

Massively complex. Good bye, good old days of simplicity! Big Cry



Somewhat relieved that I have opted for the loom and halogen option, having read that Very Happy

Post #734241 11th Oct 2018 5:07pm
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Bluest



Member Since: 23 Apr 2016
Location: Lancashire
Posts: 1344

United Kingdom 2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 XS CSW Java Black

My Trucklites pass the MOT, only comment was they have a flat became pattern which he doesn’t often see. Didn’t mention it was a problem. 2007 110 TDCi Station Wagon XS

Post #734244 11th Oct 2018 5:25pm
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leeds
Site Sponsor


Member Since: 28 Dec 2009
Location: West Yorkshire
Posts: 8239

United Kingdom 

BuckBlu110 wrote:
Now here’s a query for you Brendan, picked my dcpu up from mot this afternoon, it is fitted with genuine trucklite led head lights, and the tester said that leds are bundled in with hids and xenons in that they should have washers and the vehicle have self levelling suspension to make them legal, so by rights he should fail the motor because it isn’t fitted with either. He didn’t fail it thankfully because he said we’re that they were perfectly aligned and he didn’t think they were going to cause any issues.
Is this right? Have whoever’s in charge of mot rules snuck this in with the revisions made earlier this year?




Am trying to think of the politest way of saying this!

Maybe you need to find another MOT tester as he will be wanting to fail every vehicle which has LED headlights fitted at the factory which does not have factory fitted wash wipe system.

IF and I repeat IF a vehicle has LED headlights AND has headlight cleaning system then they must work, otherwise it is a major defect. If the vehicle has LED and does not have a cleaning system it is not a failure as there is no requirement under 4.1.6

All the last Defenders special editions had LEDs fitted without wash wipe systems and the 70th editions i.e. 2015 models are being retro fitted with Nolden LED headlights.

Now I wonder what your MOT tester would say if you ask him to explain the markings on your Truck-Lites, what does the light function code means and what is the Peak Beam Reference Number etc.


For the reputable LED headlight manufacturers such as Nolden, Vision X, Truck-Lite, J. W Speaker are all approved headlights and are all legal to retro fit into Defenders without any modifications as long as the aim is correct.

The reason being they are all approved and the dip beam is kept below 2,000 lumens avoiding the need for wash wipe systems

Now I wonder if your MOT station is going to invest in light flux measurement equipment?


Under the EC directive for roadworthy periodic testing of vehicles there was a requirement for testers to check the markings on headlights. This was not included in the UK MOT, more the pity in my view as it would get rid of the cheap illegal headlights.

Now some headlights have a inbuilt indicator and if they have the correct approval are road legal, BUT at the front of a car you are only allowed one indicator per side. Having two or more indicators per side at the front is NOT an MOT failure but is illegal, the MO T only checks that they work.


Now I know I stress the importance of approval marks and that it is best to stick to reputable brands which have the manufacturers name on the lens.


It took me less then 20 seconds to find some LED headlights which are not approved and also boasted dip beam output of 2,300 lumens. Guess what illegal as no approval marks and no advice to fit wash wipe system.

Yes it may cost more money to get road legal approved headlights. Now I wonder what your motor insurance company view will be if you have a claim and they find out your vehicle is not road legal??



Brendan http://www.4x4overlander.com
Brendan's phone numbers 07929 604668/01422 243966 up to about 9pm
email address brendan@4x4overlander.com

Post #734250 11th Oct 2018 5:59pm
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