 | Home > Technical > check out the flares.....in my brake pipes... |
 
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| donmacn Member Since: 07 Nov 2017 Location: Nth Scotland Posts: 1886  
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Hi guys,
As per a recent thread, I've been having some braking issues. Probably servo related, but there are a few lengths of pipe that could do with attention. I've done this before, on a mini, about 30 years ago, but I think I borrowed a mate's flare kit. So I bought this:  Click image to enlarge Based on a bit of googling I also bought a length of cupro-nickel brake pipe. So, I cut a wee bit off to get the hang of the flare tool, and I'm a bit under-whelmed... Male flare.... Click image to enlarge ...and female/double flare... Click image to enlarge the comparison piece is a short length of copper someone else has supplied made up. The flare tool specifically says it's for copper/brass/alu pipe, but I thought 'cupro-nickel' would fit that description. Have I got that wrong, or do any of the more experienced hands on here see anything else to suggest? I think the ones I've made up might actually seal if I tried them, but the sealing face of those flares looks to me to be about 30% less than the ones on the copper pipe. ta. D Donald 1994 Defender 300Tdi 110 SW - owned since 2002 - 230k miles and going strong (The 'rolling restoration' or tinkering thread: http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic58538.html ) 2000 Range Rover P38 4.0L V8 in the past.. RR classic - fitted with 200Tdi 1984 RR classic - V8 with ZF auto box 1993 Discovery 300Tdi not to mention the minis and the Type 2 VW camper... |
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15th Sep 2018 6:23pm |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 17781  
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A piece of advice I was given many years ago was that if you are going to buy a flaring tool, buy a Sykes Pickavant flaring tool. It's advice I followed and even the exemplars in your photos look a bit rough by comparison to those from an SP tool.
The Sealey flares are certainly a bit underwhelming. You may find that a dab of (brake fluid compatible) grease on the mandrel helps. |
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15th Sep 2018 11:05pm |
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| donmacn Member Since: 07 Nov 2017 Location: Nth Scotland Posts: 1886
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Thanks both. I'll try those suggestions. I might also get in touch with the tool supplier and see what they say. Donald
1994 Defender 300Tdi 110 SW - owned since 2002 - 230k miles and going strong (The 'rolling restoration' or tinkering thread: http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic58538.html ) 2000 Range Rover P38 4.0L V8 in the past.. RR classic - fitted with 200Tdi 1984 RR classic - V8 with ZF auto box 1993 Discovery 300Tdi not to mention the minis and the Type 2 VW camper... |
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16th Sep 2018 10:17am |
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| zsd-puma Member Since: 09 Aug 2016 Location: Kent Posts: 2720 
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I've an SP one, they are very high quality, they're in a different league compared to all the cheapo ones from Sealey, Draper etc. SP don't really exist anymore, they're part of Facom/Mac/Stanley Tools, so you may find the the same SP tools under those brands. Although what I would say is once you fit a union on that pipe and nip it up the action of it being tightened will finish off the sealing surfaces of the flares a bit more. A bit like lapping in exhaust/inlet valves. |
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16th Sep 2018 1:21pm |
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| NickMc Member Since: 01 Oct 2014 Location: Norn Iron Posts: 1681  
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Mine is hydraulic SP too- snap ons is even rebranded SP (or used to be at least)
Never been able to get a good flare with anything else. Best you can try to do is trim it with a tube cutter, chamfer the end and try different “stick out” of the pipe on the die and if that gives an improved flare. SP Flaremaster is good and not as expensive as the vice mounted type. |
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16th Sep 2018 5:11pm |
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| zsd-puma Member Since: 09 Aug 2016 Location: Kent Posts: 2720
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Mine is the Flaremaster 2, I have used the vice mounted one in the past. The Flaremaster has the advantage of being able to do pipes on the car.
(I have seen them done on car with the vice mounted one with mole grips and two people, but it's a real effort and for emergencies only) |
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16th Sep 2018 5:54pm |
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| NickMc Member Since: 01 Oct 2014 Location: Norn Iron Posts: 1681
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Same as me have the Flaremaster 2. You can pick them up for about £70 without all the extra gubbins is the box
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16th Sep 2018 6:20pm |
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| donmacn Member Since: 07 Nov 2017 Location: Nth Scotland Posts: 1886
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Thanks again all,
When buying tools I do usually try and get something 'good' - particularly for stuff that's going to get used a lot. For stuff that might only see occasional use, I'll sometimes compromise. Looks like this was one of those occasions when that was a bad idea.
I did think that might be the case, but even then, with the sealing face so much smaller, I think it's likely to be more susceptible to leaking.
I thought of that too, and did try a little bit more pipe coming out of the die - but it didn't make much difference. I think I'll contact the supplier tomorrow and see if I can organise a return, then get the SP one. Appreciate all the replies though. Donald 1994 Defender 300Tdi 110 SW - owned since 2002 - 230k miles and going strong (The 'rolling restoration' or tinkering thread: http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic58538.html ) 2000 Range Rover P38 4.0L V8 in the past.. RR classic - fitted with 200Tdi 1984 RR classic - V8 with ZF auto box 1993 Discovery 300Tdi not to mention the minis and the Type 2 VW camper... |
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16th Sep 2018 7:41pm |
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| zsd-puma Member Since: 09 Aug 2016 Location: Kent Posts: 2720
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The bending pliers are quite good though. |
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16th Sep 2018 8:07pm |
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| NickMc Member Since: 01 Oct 2014 Location: Norn Iron Posts: 1681
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They’re good, but not £100 extra good- can buy them for £15-20 separately
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16th Sep 2018 8:14pm |
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| zsd-puma Member Since: 09 Aug 2016 Location: Kent Posts: 2720
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I bought mine years ago, but don't think I paid much more for the kit.
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16th Sep 2018 8:24pm |
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| Retroanaconda Member Since: 04 Jan 2012 Location: Scotland Posts: 2737 
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I’ve got the same type as in the pictures and have done dozens of flares with it with no problem, including re-piping several vehicles entirely. One or two flares needed redoing as there is a bit of trial and error with the pipe position as noted above. As described when using kunifer pipe the ends seal themselves into the fittings.
I have also used a SP Flaremaster 2 and it is much better, no doubt. Much easier to get a consistent flare. I may get one some day, but for now the one I have is doing the job. |
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16th Sep 2018 9:59pm |
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| donmacn Member Since: 07 Nov 2017 Location: Nth Scotland Posts: 1886
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Thanks Retro, that's an interesting counter-point. I just haven't the experience in brake work to know what's acceptable and what's not, and obviously being such a safety-critical system on a road vehicle, I wouldn't want to take any chances.
I've emailed the supplier and I'll see what they say. If they'll take it back (surprised to find the order was placed at the end of July and only yesterday I had time to look at the job) then given that's a £40 'sunk cost' I'll probably opt for the Flaremaster as only an extra £50. If I was lying under the car and struggling to get a flare on a pipe end, then I reckon I'd have been happier to spend that £50 on a better tool. If they don't take it back, then maybe some more practice is needed! Donald 1994 Defender 300Tdi 110 SW - owned since 2002 - 230k miles and going strong (The 'rolling restoration' or tinkering thread: http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic58538.html ) 2000 Range Rover P38 4.0L V8 in the past.. RR classic - fitted with 200Tdi 1984 RR classic - V8 with ZF auto box 1993 Discovery 300Tdi not to mention the minis and the Type 2 VW camper... |
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17th Sep 2018 9:09am |
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