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BaileyJ



Member Since: 07 Mar 2018
Location: Britain
Posts: 15

2008 Defender 90 Puma 2.4 HT Keswick Green

After doing some research across the transit forums last night I came across an interesting guide. A very similar issue to what I seem to be experiencing.

It seemed to conclude following a reconditioned fuel pump and injectors that the incorrect oil was used at a previous service. This in turn was causing the oil pressure to not rise fast enough to push the chain tensioner across providing the correct timing for starting this in turn was still with smoke from the exhaust as per my issue.

He said that the engine started with the slightest sniff of easy start and ran perfectly. Well I tried this tonight with a minuscule amount of easy start in the wing intake and it jumped into life time and time again it started with ease about 15 times then I had to run out the garage before I passed out from diesel fume inhalation.

I also monitored the fuel pressure in the rail and this showed some interesting spikes upto 1200 bar on cranking after a failed start. Then it seemed to peak at between 250-400 and it started. I’ve got some logs to look over and I’ll post my findings later on.

Anyway the mystery continues but hopefully I’m getting somewhere. I also think I may have found the glow plug issue. It only registers a fault if I leave the glow plug relay to complete its full warm up cycle I.e it clicks on light goes out and then the relay clicks off this is when the fault is registered. I checked the plug resistance and cylinder no 4 was 0.4ohms higher than the rest so this is possibly the issue. I’ll leave it for now as it still seems to start ok without the glow plug relay even connected.

Post #692891 12th Mar 2018 6:28pm
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BaileyJ



Member Since: 07 Mar 2018
Location: Britain
Posts: 15

2008 Defender 90 Puma 2.4 HT Keswick Green


Click image to enlarge


This is one of the pressure plots If anyone wanted to see. Peaks then drops when running to idle and stays fairly consistent.

Post #692895 12th Mar 2018 6:45pm
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Ontdekker



Member Since: 25 Nov 2009
Location: Centurion
Posts: 10

South Africa 2010 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 CSW Chawton White

Check this thread that might assist with the glow plug error.

http://www.4x4community.co.za/forum/showth...Error-Code

Post #692989 13th Mar 2018 5:57am
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lrmaniac



Member Since: 04 Feb 2010
Location: Lisboa
Posts: 759

Portugal 2010 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Keswick Green

Your topic interests me a lot.... sorry to hijack, but I'm hoping to discover it also... with your help maybe

I've been having a similar problem...and your pics on the beggining of this post seem to match the problems I have...

Some times it's hard to start...
other times the glow plug light does not lit and the temperature indicator goes up... see videos below

sometimes it looks like the vehicle starts and then for a split of a second it shuts off and on...


and last when I turn the key to position II right before turning the engine on I hear a ratratratratrat sound from, I think, under the passenger seat (RH) or behind the dash....as in this video - sound on


these two videos we can see some of the problems...

checked the fuses, ignition barrel and switch replaced a couple of months ago... no faults on the scangauge (although I think the scangauge it's not a big deal...never read one error, when I've had some)
going to follow your post and links and try to solve also...starting on the relays Neutral Regards
Joao Pedro

'10 Land Rover Defender 110 CC
'08 BMW F800GS
'64 SIIA Forward Control
'69 SIIA 109 ZA CKD
_____________________________________________
You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say will be misquoted, then used against you.

Post #693654 15th Mar 2018 11:05pm
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newhue



Member Since: 28 Apr 2014
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 351

Australia 

In that second vid it sounds like one of the relays under the passengers seat. If it is it should be easy to locate with that clicking. My Defender and travels

Post #693854 16th Mar 2018 8:20pm
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BaileyJ



Member Since: 07 Mar 2018
Location: Britain
Posts: 15

2008 Defender 90 Puma 2.4 HT Keswick Green

Hello all,

Been a while since I got a chance to look at the defender. I haven’t made any progress, I did have a suggestion to change the crank position sensor based on someone else having a similar issue. I have taken the old one out to find that it was glued in place and it appears that the mounting bracket is broken. Does anyone have a picture of what the mounting arrangement looks like on the 2.4?

Mine looks like this..


Click image to enlarge




Click image to enlarge




Click image to enlarge


I would imagine there should be a small flange to bolt through into the sensor?

Any help much appreciated as always.

Post #695720 23rd Mar 2018 5:03pm
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blackwolf



Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 8915

United Kingdom 2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Stornoway Grey

IIRC the bit with the hole that is still bolted to your engine is meant to be an integral part of the bit in your hand.

Post #695723 23rd Mar 2018 5:34pm
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custom90steve



Member Since: 21 Jan 2010
Location: South West England
Posts: 16427

United Kingdom 2007 Defender 90 Puma 2.4 SW Stornoway Grey

LRmainiac - That sounds like a Relay failiures.
The clicking is the switch inside the replay engaging and disengaging very fast, which it would normally only do once.
Engage, or disengage.
(I presume.)

Sound like it's either getting rapid pulsed voltage, or there is an EMF issue failiure with the Relay it's self.
It may also be high resistance on the connector socket or pins of the Relay.

But I'd be pretty sure it's a Relay or Relay socket issue.

Thumbs Up Watts ÷ Volts = Amps.
Amps X Volts = Watts

Post #695731 23rd Mar 2018 6:04pm
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dorsetsmith



Member Since: 30 Oct 2011
Location: dorset
Posts: 3022

United Kingdom 2003 Defender 90 Td5 HT Caledonian Blue

 pickup 90 TD5 2006

HT 90 TD5 2003

Post #695739 23rd Mar 2018 7:22pm
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Cupboard



Member Since: 21 Mar 2014
Location: Suffolk
Posts: 2893

United Kingdom 2011 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 HT Corris Grey

I've had some issues similar to lrmaniac's first video recently.
The most recent time was on Wednesday when I tried to leave work. The dash lit up as usual, tried to start and it didn't. Turned the ignition off and on again, just got the battery light and the temperature gauge went in to the red. I've had quite a lot of other starting issues recently which I originally thought was a tired battery (I still think that was a problem, just perhaps not *the* problem) but this was a brand new battery that I had fully charged the evening before (as a just in case measure), it was reading 12.8V with the ignition off and I had also linked my second battery as another just in case measure. I wanted to get home!

Fixed it by taking all the relays out and putting them back in again. It's been much happier since then. One thing I had noticed before having the issues was on the voltage displays on my Ultraguage. It has two potential displays, one that it measures itself which stays pretty steady between 14.3 and 14.45V and one that it picks up from the ECU. Before Wednesday and me reseating the relays, the one from the ECU was reading all over the place as I drove along. It would go up to 14.2 but would sometimes drop down to 12.5V often enough that I noticed it but only for a second or two at a time. Since fiddling around in the carpark, that's been much steadier reading between 14.0 and 14.3V as I'm driving.

It might be a complete coincidence but it does seem to all tally.

Post #695754 23rd Mar 2018 8:11pm
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BaileyJ



Member Since: 07 Mar 2018
Location: Britain
Posts: 15

2008 Defender 90 Puma 2.4 HT Keswick Green

dorsetsmith wrote:


That’s the one, I’ve ordered the part. I guess this requires the gearbox sliding back to gain access to the bolts.

Would the crank sensor cause the issues I’ve been seeing? The rev counter still works fine which is assume works off this signal. And when it’s running it’s been running fine. I’m praying it does sort the problems.

Post #695868 24th Mar 2018 11:57am
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lrmaniac



Member Since: 04 Feb 2010
Location: Lisboa
Posts: 759

Portugal 2010 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Keswick Green

Hi

Thanks for your inputs...

Searched for glow plug relay part number... on this forum and the internet...found this link

https://www.landroverworkshop.com/connectors/defender-2007/C0215

Is it part number YPP10005? Because if it is it's not for sale anywhere... is there an alternative part number?
And can anyone poit to the main relay pn also?

I've also been noticing more than normal smoke on start up... Will have the glowplugs changed, next week since the 110 has to do maintenance and MOT...

**UPDATE** - Found the correct PN... YWB500220LR and YWB500060 Regards
Joao Pedro

'10 Land Rover Defender 110 CC
'08 BMW F800GS
'64 SIIA Forward Control
'69 SIIA 109 ZA CKD
_____________________________________________
You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say will be misquoted, then used against you.

Post #696418 27th Mar 2018 9:15am
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BaileyJ



Member Since: 07 Mar 2018
Location: Britain
Posts: 15

2008 Defender 90 Puma 2.4 HT Keswick Green

A bit of work carried out today. I got the bracket changed eventually. I do now have another issue in that the gearbox won’t slide back upto the engine fully. It’s about 10mm away but it wont pull up tight. I’ve tried jacking the gearbox in every point making sure they are both level but it will won’t go back together. I can’t work out what it might be. Has anyone split the gearbox and engine before and had a similar issue? I’m worried something from the clutch or the spigot bush has disintegrated and blocked the hole for the gearbox input shaft.

Another issue I found was a large earth cable not connected to anything. I haven’t traced it yet but it seems to be coming from the relays under the seatbox. I can only assume this might be the issue with my glowplug fault.

Post #698368 3rd Apr 2018 9:26pm
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BenB8man



Member Since: 22 Mar 2017
Location: Norfolk
Posts: 264

United Kingdom 2010 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Stornoway Grey

The earth strap, or any earthing issue, can cause all manner of random/intermittent/unusual problems. That might well be the main source of the problems! Rolling Eyes

I'm by no means an expert, but I have taken the gearbox fully out, into the workshop and back in again. No Jack, no assistance, just using ratchet straps to support it and a skateboard to move it!

I did find myself in the same position as you when it came to mating them back together though. Took quite some wriggling. I ended up fully underneath the gearbox (transfer still connected) with my feet eitherside of the bellhouse pushing it as i rocked it with my hands on the transferbox. Obviously make sure there is nothing actually in the way of the mating surfaces and in the bellhouse etc. I had disconnected everything, so had to be aware of things dangling as it went back together.

I'd be surprised if anything is blocking the spigot bushing though, its more likely catching on a mount or something you can't see. If you really cant get it together maybe pull it back apart and see if you can feel any issues.

Post #698379 3rd Apr 2018 9:45pm
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Caterham



Member Since: 06 Nov 2008
Location: Birmingham
Posts: 5144

England 2011 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 XS CSW Stornoway Grey

lrmaniac wrote:
Your topic interests me a lot.... sorry to hijack, but I'm hoping to discover it also... with your help maybe

I've been having a similar problem...and your pics on the beggining of this post seem to match the problems I have...

Some times it's hard to start...
other times the glow plug light does not lit and the temperature indicator goes up... see videos below

sometimes it looks like the vehicle starts and then for a split of a second it shuts off and on...


and last when I turn the key to position II right before turning the engine on I hear a ratratratratrat sound from, I think, under the passenger seat (RH) or behind the dash....as in this video - sound on


these two videos we can see some of the problems...

checked the fuses, ignition barrel and switch replaced a couple of months ago... no faults on the scangauge (although I think the scangauge it's not a big deal...never read one error, when I've had some)
going to follow your post and links and try to solve also...starting on the relays Neutral



try disconnecting the scanguage and try again see if that helps. I've known it to cause strange things in he past. good luck.

Post #698419 4th Apr 2018 7:10am
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